SGA 2.05 - Condemned

[eretria]

This'll be a backwards-forwards-in-the-middle kind of commentary.

• First of all: That ending. That's ... That's just ... I don't know if I should be pleased that they didn't go for a happy ending or absolutely shocked and appalled for the choice they made. They sentenced everyone on that planet - or at least a vast majority - to death. On the other had, if they had kept the prisoners where they were, they would have sentenced them to death. Yes, you could argue that the next Wraith culling wouldn't have stopped at the colony anymore at any rate, but ... this was a conscious decision. How many more of those can Sheppard make until he breaks? Sumner was one thing, Sumner was mercy, but this ... this was ruthless retaliation. Or maybe, no, retaliation isn't exactly the right word, but it felt like payback. The: "See what you did to your own people for so long, now take a sip of your own medicine" kind of thing.
  Rodney's always accused of being righteous? By god, what kind of a righteous decision did Sheppard make?
  And what's worse? It's not that I blame him. This isn't real life, obviously, so I'm stuck wondering how this will affect him, personally. And Elizabeth, too, because by default, she's in this.

• The Wraith will know now that Atlantis is still there, right? I mean, the Jumper was hardly to be mistaken, and especially the Drone. On the other hand, again - what else should they have done? It's so fucked up that either step they take is wrong - it's a no-win situation. Either they stay and they die, or they defend themselves and run and give away Atlantis. Shit, shit, shit.

• The Wraith are coming for dinner. No, really.
  Uh, seriously, guys. That's about as believable as my cat suddenly going vegetarian. Yes, they tried to give an explanation, but in all honesty - those Wraith who do the whole life-energy-sucking-thing ... wouldn't they have been an evolution of the "lower" Wraith who still ingest normal food? And in that case, wouldn't they have the physical specifics to show for it? No more stomach, for one. No taste buds? No way of digesting the food? Yes, the idea was nice, and it made for a creepy scene, but overall? None too believable from an even vaguely scientific point of view.
  Apart from that - that Wraith reminded me a lot of a Cardassian, manner-and-behaviour-wise.

• Shallow comment of the day: When sitting down tied up, even dear Shep has a wee belly. That's all kinds of adorable. So were all his pop-culture references.

• And more with the shallow: JF should be made to run  and slouch and crouch and duck and run and fight more. Because ... yum. The way that black shirt stretches over him? Very much yum.
  Uhm, here's a thought, though - why have we never seen Shep in a short-sleeved shirt like Rodney? Are they afraid that Rodney would win the forearm-contest hands down? Because, duh. He so would.

• How much do I love Sheppard speaking McKay-code? He looks through him so perfectly. Even though, how he knew that Rodney wasn't entirely honest is beyond me, because it pretty much looked shot, that Jumper.

• Seriously, that black shirt is so distracting.

• Ow, knee! Oh, ow, ow, OW.

• Elizabeth. ELIZABETH. (Sorry, really couldn't help the caps here.) That's just ... Never again tell me that that woman doesn't know what she wants. Or that she's weak. And if I see one more fic about her breaking down crying over some minor thing like in a bad romance-novel I may seriously puke. There, watch that episode. Watch her. Watch that enjoyment of the power she has wash over her features. And then I dare you describe her as weak again. That woman is anything but.
  I loved how the progression of the leader of the pack was shown - she was concerned at first, not entirely sure what had happened and maybe a little insecure about that. But as soon as she was on familiar ground - dealing with a politician - she was thriving. This is the first time we've seen her off-world apart from the Genii stint, right? So, despite her team being in danger and her becoming the lioness out there to protect her children, she was probably also thriving on the fact that she finally got out of Atlantis for a change.
  And I'm starting to really, really like her. I may start to develop a girl-crush on Dr. Weir.

• That black shirt is still very distracting.

• With the shallow again, but how much do I love it that they're all so nicely dirty? Especially Rodney?

• Interesting to see how much Ronon listens to Teyla. How he looks to her for approval or understanding. How he - despite knowing that she can handle herself - takes extra-care to cut her lose. So different from the "suck it up" to Rodney. Which - you know, was in its very own league of double-meaning.

• Interesting thing during the fight: Teyla doesn't hit those two men from behind. She makes sure they know she's there before she takes them out. Nice.

• Also, fight-thought (or rather, exclamation): Prison!guy: smacks his fist in Shep's face. Eretria: Not the face, you idiot! Not the face!

• I can't decide whether I find Sheppard's constant commentary about "making friends" annoying or if it stabs me in the heart. It could just be an annoying habit. But, then again, it could be the deep-rooted wish to finally find people who won't kill them, hunt them, shoot at them etc. To actually make new friends.

• Scene at the capital, talk with Elizabeth about the "minor moral hiccup": I think this might be the first time (at least as far as I remember) that Shep grinned (full-out, fondly grinned instead of the eye-roll-grin) at one of Rodney's jokes. Sweet.

• A big round of applause for the capital punishment barb. Seriously. Thank you.

• The body-language in those scenes with the creepy leader-guy is interesting: McKay's crossed arms, Sheppard's hand on his P90 and the weapon in front of him like a shield, Teyla's shoulder toward the creepy!guy and her hand on the P90 as well and Ronon's hands on his hips ... Interesting show of strength

• Margaret Thatcher commentary? Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii! Oh, Rodney, I do love you.

• Welcoming scene in the planet's capitol: Oh, heavens. Why do I only notice this on the third viewing? John is checking out Merin's (she of the skirt that is too tight to walk in normal steps) arse in that dress so blatantly and for so long that it's a wonder Rodney didn't whack him upside the head.

• That black shirt is still distracting.

• Even tied up, Rodney's hands are never entirely still. I love that.
  However ... wouldn't they have had a good chance to get out of these ropes if they had just found a away to remove the ... sticks (for the lack if a better word) from under their arms? A little pushing in the right direction should have worked wonders.

• Hewlett portraying fear is too amazing to watch. You can almost feel him shaking.

• Angry!John is ... uh, yeah. I'll just ... be in my bunk.

• Interesting, too, that Ronon is so easily placated by having given an order. And how easily he puts himself under John's command. John's surprise at that is ... endearing.

• And still ... that black shirt is so distracting.

• I wonder whom Rodney would have chosen if it had been for real. If he really would have been forced to choose who of his team dies first. Of course, Ronon would have been the first to go because he hasn't bonded with him yet, but ... what about the next one. How would he have chosen between Sheppard and Teyla? And even if he didn't have to choose this time - how will it affect him, personally, that he thought about it?

So, yes. I liked the episode far better than I thought I would, even though it's quite a Sci-Fi stereotype, especially with the prison colony.
But still the twists this show takes make up for the old concept.
And the overwhelming darkness at the end of the episode still makes it hard to breathe. I want to see some kind of nod toward the psychological effects of this choice in upcoming episodes.

Comments

[dimana.livejournal.com]

Hello. I'm sorry I'm bothering you, but I know you're a good friend of valonia's and I do miss her a lot. She hasn't updated in a while and I thought that maybe you could have any information where she could be. If you do, please tell me, because she's not responding to my e-mail and we used to be (and I hope we still are) very good freinds. I'm just worried something might have happened! Thank you in advance! Have a nice next week!

part 1

[tinny]

Oooh, very thoughtprovoking. I saw a few things a bit differently.

They sentenced everyone on that planet - or at least a vast majority - to death.

I didn't see it like that. The problem, of course, is the whole premise that the Wraith would let that people develop as they please. They just wouldn't, because it means too high a risk for them. The way I see it, the Alyssians had a fleet of spaceships, armed and everything. They would be able to fight the Wraith. At least for a while. I don't doubt they could just shoot down the Wraith cruisers in that first wave. After that, well, pretty much everything's wide open. Depends on if they can actually use the gate network or not. If not, they probably can only evacuate their own planet. Not much of a choice, I guess, but I don't think Sheppard and Elizabeth are to blame for sentencing the whole planet to death. They pretty much did that themselves.

The right thing to do would be to go back there and check if there are survivors and rescue them later. I am sure there will be no mention of it in canon ever again. It was established (horribly, imho) that the ruling class were the bad boys, so they deserve being eaten. Yeah right.

This isn't real life, obviously, so I'm stuck wondering how this will affect him, personally. And Elizabeth, too, because by default, she's in this.

Actually, Elizabeth is a hardass when it comes to negotiating, and she looked righteous throughout the whole episode. Not actually with much reason - good diplomat... hmpf. Good and hard negotiator, yes. Diplomat? Pretty much in Sheppard's league these days. About the effects this *should* have on the characters: the writers didn't even think it through half-way, and that pisses me off. I don't think it will have any effects.

It's so fucked up that either step they take is wrong - it's a no-win situation. Either they stay and they die, or they defend themselves and run and give away Atlantis. Shit, shit, shit.

Oh, I loved that about it. No way out. But knowing the writers, the Wraith won't notice the jumper and nothing will happen.


I have to agree with you on the black shirt (*pant*) and the dirty faces (*meep*). This show is going to corrupt me (even more).

Uhm, here's a thought, though - why have we never seen Shep in a short-sleeved shirt like Rodney?

I still think there's something with JF's arms that they don't want to go to the bother of hiding every time. That's why he always wears long sleeves, or that black wristband. Let's build up this myth some more, shall we?

That's just ... Never again tell me that that woman doesn't know what she wants. Or that she's weak. And if I see one more fic about her breaking down crying over some minor thing like in a bad romance-novel I may seriously puke. There, watch that episode. Watch her. Watch that enjoyment of the power she has wash over her features. And then I dare you describe her as weak again. That woman is anything but.

Yes, I agree. Not weak. They gave her lots of opportunities to show force this season, and I like the thoughts behind it. I don't particularly like the execution - call me stubborn, but it still doesn't feel right to me. She was way over the top with her righteousness and jabs at the magistrate. I hated her attitude. It works as a negotiating technique, though, so... I don't have much of a leg to stand on.

part 2

[tinny]

John is checking out Merin's (she of the skirt that is too tight to walk in normal steps) arse in that dress so blatantly and for so long that it's a wonder Rodney didn't whack him upside the head.

I have to watch it again, now. I didn't notice that at all.

However ... wouldn't they have had a good chance to get out of these ropes if they had just found a away to remove the ... sticks (for the lack if a better word) from under their arms?

Good idea! Yes, that should have worked. Maybe not, seeing as they were tied at the throat to the pole behind them, so sideways movement wouldn't have been so easy. At least not as far as they would have needed to move to push the sticks out all the way. But just wiggling it with their elbows might already have worked.

But Teyla might have been able to wriggle her legs out to the front. It might have left enough room for her to push her feet up through the loop and get her arms to the back, just making the stick drop out. Maybe not, it would require someone really, really flexible.

Angry!John is ... uh, yeah. I'll just ... be in my bunk.

God, yes. The first time I can really appreciate the bunk comment. :) I always seemed to be the only one who never found *anything* attractive about Jayne at all.

And how easily he puts himself under John's command. John's surprise at that is ... endearing.

I *loved* Sheppard's expression there. Usually, he gets to be the last person shown before a cut. And often it just looks confused or weird. But this, this looked layered. So many interpretations.

I wonder whom Rodney would have chosen

Yes, I asked myself the same question. The only way to get around it (and to keep a halfway clear conscience) is to refuse to choose. I'm sure that's what he would have done.

If the choice really was as stated. But if that guy is actually good at messing with people's heads, he wouldn't make it this easy. He would add something to the refusal, maybe torture before killing them. And only letting them die quickly if Rodney chooses. (heee, you make me think mean things)

In that case, I think it would break Rodney really really quickly, because he can't handle being responsible for other people. Especially since John and Teyla (and Carson) are the only real friends he has. He would lose it for sure. *shudder*

Re: part 1

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Not much of a choice, I guess, but I don't think Sheppard and Elizabeth are to blame for sentencing the whole planet to death. They pretty much did that themselves.

Ah, but do Sheppard and Elizabeth know that? They didn't know that the planet folks were having a devil's bargain with the Wraith, did they? So for all they knew, the prison coloney was all that stopped the Wraith from coming for the city folk.

Uhm, and where did you see spaceships with the planet-folk (will keep calling them that until I've seen an official spelling of their names)? Yes, planes like the one we've seen, but what makes you think those are space-worthy? Or is this just an educated guess?
However, good call about the gate, though, however ... it still comes down to the same thing: Not knowing that the Wraith were in cohorts with the planet folk, John has no excuse.

Yes, Elizabeth was quite hardass in this one, but from what I gathered, it was much less moral superiority and much more true concern for her people, masked by strength. As I said - the lioness protecting her children.

But knowing the writers, the Wraith won't notice the jumper and nothing will happen.

Dear? You're harshing my vibe here. :o) I'm not entirely cynical about writers yet, too much of an optimist for that, so I still have some faith.

I have to agree with you on the black shirt (*pant*) and the dirty faces (*meep*). This show is going to corrupt me (even more).

*raises eyebrow* You say that like it's a bad thing.

I still think there's something with JF's arms that they don't want to go to the bother of hiding every time. That's why he always wears long sleeves, or that black wristband. Let's build up this myth some more, shall we?

Like a tattoo? *g* Or a scar?

Re: part 2

[eretria.livejournal.com]

I have to watch it again, now. I didn't notice that at all.

Well, it took me three viewing to see, but you never actually look for something so blatant, so I was all the more surprised to see it.

But Teyla might have been able to wriggle her legs out to the front. It might have left enough room for her to push her feet up through the loop and get her arms to the back, just making the stick drop out. Maybe not, it would require someone really, really flexible.

I now have really bad visual of "Pitch Black" and the dislocating of a shoulder. Which, you know ... ow

God, yes. The first time I can really appreciate the bunk comment. :) I always seemed to be the only one who never found *anything* attractive about Jayne at all.

Not a huge Jayne fan either, but that comment? *g* So worth it.


I *loved* Sheppard's expression there. Usually, he gets to be the last person shown before a cut. And often it just looks confused or weird. But this, this looked layered. So many interpretations.

I sometimes wonder if it's actually the actor managing the layered look or just fannish interpretation and wishful thinking. But you'd have to be very objective to judge that, and let#s face it? We're anything but. So, yes. Layered. Multi-layered.

Yes, I asked myself the same question. The only way to get around it (and to keep a halfway clear conscience) is to refuse to choose. I'm sure that's what he would have done.

Well, he has. But I was wondering about the worst-case-scenario. The situation where he just can't refuse.

If the choice really was as stated. But if that guy is actually good at messing with people's heads, he wouldn't make it this easy. He would add something to the refusal, maybe torture before killing them. And only letting them die quickly if Rodney chooses. (heee, you make me think mean things)

But, being pro-life, how much would Rodney stand until he thinks it's too much? Until the death of his friends is preferable to life? That's a scary, scary thought.

In that case, I think it would break Rodney really really quickly, because he can't handle being responsible for other people. Especially since John and Teyla (and Carson) are the only real friends he has. He would lose it for sure. *shudder*

But lose it in which way? What would/could happen?

Re: part 1

[tinny]

Ah, but do Sheppard and Elizabeth know that?

Argh, you're right, of course. I assumed they thought the ruse with the prison island worked. In that case, I would assume an even greater technological development from the planet's other population. Since they know they have to defend themselves against the Wraith if their prison island should one day not be enough. But still, doesn't change much. Elizabeth and John should definitely have thought about that, asked about it, maybe.

I hated the whole thing about them feeling so superior - but I never thought to get into their heads. I stopped at blaming the writers for not thinking it through. I'm usually too far from the action to take everything seriously. Or maybe I like the characters too much to believe that they would not be thinking about it ahead of time. Because I know they would. Still, moral dilemma, but another one.

Uhm, and where did you see spaceships

You're right, I only assumed that they were spaceships. Also, I thought about it again, and that ship/plane wasn't actually armed. It blew them away with its jets, but didn't shoot at them afair.

*raises eyebrow* You say that like [being corrupted] is a bad thing.

Well, yes. I feel guilty about it. Because I really don't like the show's pacing or its writing much. Especially not since it's sponsored by the US military. And I hate being lectured on anything by TV, not to mention by the US military. Now that I feel unable to look away because I can't help drooling over JF, yes, that makes me feel bad. Not bad enough to stop, obviously, but bad enough to feel guilty and complain a bit. :)

Like a tattoo? *g* Or a scar?

I can't decide which, but yes. Those are the two options. :)

Re: part 2

[tinny]

We're anything but. So, yes. Layered. Multi-layered.

*LOL*

To be honest, he usually looks bored at the end of scenes. So much so that for almost every scene I cringe and go "cut it already, cut it now!". But the editing is abysmal on that show. With all the meaningless glances at the end of each scene's dialogue, they could make the trailer 2 minutes or longer!

It's very rare that I get a "multilayered" vibe from JF at the end of scenes.
When he's trying, when he's acting (= in the middle of a scene), it's very different. And I do believe that he's not a bad actor at all. But those left over scene endings are just badly edited and no fault of his.

Until the death of his friends is preferable to life? That's a scary, scary thought.

Yes it is. But I think Rodney is very similar to me in most things - the overthinking, the arrogance, the hubris. I do think he would totally be able to think rationally about it and *let them die to spare them*. Not that he would be able to live with that decision later on.

But lose it in which way? What would/could happen?

//) You're the writer, not me. :)) I think his brain would screw him over. He'd do it and get out of that situation and then his brain would start working again.

I think he would not be able to stop thinking about it, he would lose himself in the possibilities, the endless ways his brain would come up with to make things different - after it's all too late. It would drive him insane, because he would not be able to think clearly (and concentrate on his work) or to sleep. He would go totally crazy (in whatever sense that comes out, I don't know, I have no experience with mental problems) and probably not care about himself anymore and eventually die. Whatever, not eating and not being able to perform the easiest tasks.

In that way.

Or maybe we're overestimating his attachment to the others - he might be able to suppress it all and pretend he didn't love them. Then he'd function outwardly and die of kidney failure or a heart attack or some other organic defect that sublimates his guilt.

Not as interesting, though. :) I like it better dark. And I'd like to think that they really are his lifeline, the only people he's ever felt attached to his whole life.