eretria

Had a bit of a search around, and boy, is it hard to find a list sorted by episode first! They're all sorted by pairing, which makes things hard if the story is het or, shock!, gen. *g*

The first one I've listed is on

ellex42's spoiler list, the second isn't.

And, like you, I can't explain why there isn't more Allies fic out there. I hope it isn't because it is Rodney in danger - but, arguing on the lines of popularity, then Ronon in danger should have produced fic in its own right, considering the impact the character has had since his introduction. He may not be as popular as John, but he does seem to be up there. So why there aren't more fans trying to save him is definitely interesting.

Dulce et decorum est (http://kajikia.livejournal.com/1092.html) - McKay/Ronon. death story.

Touching the Sun (http://ts5000.livejournal.com/37043.html#cutid1) - gen. No warnings. I betaed this, just telling you... *g*

ellex42's Allies spoiler fic list (http://ellex42.livejournal.com/37741.html)

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Link away.

But if you wanted to be disgruntled with a cliffhanger, you might as well be disgruntled with the S1 cliffhanger. We do know that our heroes always get out alive, TPTP wouldn't actually kill any of them off, so, why the need for post-ep fic for Siege II, then? (Okay, this might be a superflous question, because I wrote Two Siege II fics myself)

I found, in many ways, Allies even more hopeless, because - hello, Earth in danger, not just Atlantis, and that's a whole new wasp-nest to poke into. There could have been so much dark, dark, dark fic, and also, rescue fics, and fics from the POV of those left behind on Atlantis, who have to live with their mistakes which made them lose three of the most valuable members of the expedition.

I didn't really consider Allies to be that criminally stupid, because the situation was fucked either way, and what else could they have done with Michael threatening to disclose them to the otehr Wraith? Yes, allowing Rodney to go on the Hive-ship was not the smartest of moves. But, take the computer - they thought they had it firewalled. Okay, so obviously not enough, but that's a mistake that's human, and not simply stupid.

Plus, the options seem limited.

Well, there weren't all that many outcomes for Siege II, either, were there? Either he's dead or he's not.

A case of it's been done before?

You know, if that were really the case, then there could be no more new fic written, because everything has been done before, one way or the other. :o) It's what the writer does with an old theme that brings the spice. So, I ask you: Where is the spice in post-Allies?

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shusu.livejournal.com

It's possible that Your Cowboy Days are Over (http://samdonne.livejournal.com/26869.html) is post-Allies. I'm not 100% sure. White Lies (http://solvent90.livejournal.com/4741.html) posted earlier in the month. Otherwise I have one during-Allies fic, They are Wraith (http://shusu.livejournal.com/763089.html).

Having not-found much more than that, I think it's because Siege 2 put every individual character in peril, while really it's only (heh) Earth in peril here. The Wraith can't feed on Ronon, the Queen wants Rodney alive, and we were distracted by the synchronized elbows when John explained the hiveship blindspot. Unless the Ori show up and make mad love not war, there aren't a lot of places that cliffhanger can go.

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Thanks for the links. (Although, aiiiii, it had Ronon!sex. Ronon does NOT have sex. That's just ... aiiiii. No. No. Ronon is a monk, he's the little brother, he's a ritual virgin, he's asexual, something, anything, but he does not have sex. *covers eyes*)

Okay, yes, I get you about the peril argument, but, really ... There weren't that many ways Siege II could go, either. It was either John making it or not making it. Either they defeat the Wraith or they don't, and them not making it seemed far less likely with the show renewed for a second season.

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I hope it isn't because it is Rodney in danger

I seriously doubt that. It's not like Rodney is hated in fandom. If anything, the idea of what Rodney under torture or under some mind-altering drugs or under a serious prodding from the Queen could have told the Wraith should be frightening enough to produce fic, even if Sheppard does save them all. Even with Rodney alive, but with his knowledge in Wraith hands? Oh, boy. That's one hell of a problem.

or, shock!, gen. *g*

*narrows eyes at you* Missy. Don't mock the gen.

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I hope it's not because people don't care that Rodney is in actual danger...

As I said below, I seriously doubt that. Rodney is much-loved in fandom, so not caring whether or not he dies? Doubtful, Watson, doubtful.
There are so damn many options for this to go - apart from the actual rescue (which is a given), but with Rodney's knowledge, especially about Atlantis and Ancient technology in Wraith hands? Crikey.
Plus, we don't seriously think that they haven't shared the location of Earth with other Wraith, now do we? So, a whole new problem - how to stop the news from spreading? The Wraith aren't stupid, after all.

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Hmm.

Maybe it is related to the way that people are still dealing with season two itself? I mean it is only in the last few months that I have seen a flood of season two writing and most of that has been about the earlier/middle part and not the later episodes. I can't think of many stories that goes beyond Grace Under Pressure. Sure there are one or two, but certainly not the plethora that abound for season one or early season two. The majority are still around The Hive. Even Coup D'Etat with the ever popular Genii has barely been breached and as for Michael? Zip. Or Inferno and the Tower, which are talked about in meta constantly but not really written about.

Are authors afraid (not meaning anyone in particular) to broach the characters and what might be their weaknesses? There are a lot of classic stories dealing with their personality issues when there is not so much at stake, but people seem to be shying away from the darker story lines or more 'human' decisions. I mean, how do you write Carson? Or even to write the Wraith as something to interact with on more than 'space vampire!' level. The uncertainty doesn't seem to be about cliff hanger potential, but character direction and stuff. Weird, because I look and go 'goldfield!' before reminding myself that I can't write.

Good question and one that I shall go ponder some more.

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I heart you and your shiny brain, because - yes. Yes, yes, and, oh, that, there? Yes, too.

(Though there are quite a few Inferno-fics. Which are (all) about the conduit-flirting. :o) )

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*narrows eyes at you* Missy. Don't mock the gen.

*cackle* I adore a good gen story, and really, when you think about it, Allies has much more potential for the production of epics than Siege did, to my way of thinking. Gen, het or slash.

As you said in one of your other replies, Siege was at least as limited as Allies; as either John died, taking out a hive ship, with others to follow behind him when the strategy worked; John failed and Atlantis was stuffed and they all died heroically, but died; or a third party stepped in, as was promised in Siege II, having the Daedalus arrive in time - which, of course, happened.

Allies? John gets on board, frees Rodney and Ronon, and either gets away while destroying the hive ships. Or John does his rescue but can't destroy the hive ships. Or Rodney destroys one or both hive ships, dying heroically (or not so heroically) in the process. Or no-one stops the hive ships, Rodney and Ronon see Earth attacked, John rescues them during attack and heads off to Earth to help the fight. Or same scenario but with Asgard/To'cra/whoever's help in fight. Or same scenario but the Ori intervene as they don't want to see potential converts fall to the 'heathen hordes' who forced their ancestors to flee Atlantis.

See? Lots of options. *g*

Now, if someone would just write them...

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Or, you know, the other option where John does come in, does free them from the cocoons, they do set a self-destruct on the hive-ship but the F-302 only fits two people and they have to leave Ronon behind.

No, not writing any of that, sorry (though I'd love to see it written, too). I have enough work with my latest story (still whimpering, here), and then the flu-fic is up, and probably one or two slightly UST-ish / porny snapshots.

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dar-jeeling.livejournal.com

Oh, right, that's what I forgot to mention. Michael as an option.

I found, in many ways, Allies even more hopeless
Hm. As usual, I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. The horrible outcome of The Siege seemed...more inevitable to me. Maybe it was the timing.

There could have been so much dark, dark, dark fic
I'm not sure, but I think there are quite a few fics dealing with that scenario, it wouldn't necessarily have to be post Allies.

You know, if that were really the case, then there could be no more new fic written
*snort* Okay, true.

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There are a lot of classic stories dealing with their personality issues when there is not so much at stake, but people seem to be shying away from the darker story lines or more 'human' decisions.

Now that is a very good point, and reminds me of some of the meta that came out after Critical Mass. I started out in a fandom which was based on a very grey show - Blake's 7 - and find the questions of morality/expediancy in a time of conflict fascinating, and do not expect the characters in my shows to be only slightly flawed. I am much more fascinated if those flaws are great, gaping fissures. I want to see them wrestle with the bigger questions. I want to see them fail. I was fascinated by the decisions Weir etc made in Critical Mass, even if the writers may not, themselves, have been fulling aware of what they were doing. But the fact that Weir could send Ronon off to torture Kavanaugh is interesting. My only complaint is that the subject was not later touched upon, the consequences not dealt with - not that the situation occured.

Perhaps Allies is just too much conflict/failure/drama for most writers to feel they can tackle. Perhaps they can, but perhaps they don't think so. It is just sad that they haven't, to this date, tried.

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I'm not sure, but I think there are quite a few fics dealing with that scenario, it wouldn't necessarily have to be post Allies.

Where, though? I'm willing to be educated and introduced to new fic.

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What? I somehow missed those? Dammit. Still they don't compare to the number of Lost Boys fic or even Letters from Pegasus. When I first fell into fandom I was so incredibly confused as to what season went where because of the amount of season one fic and ended up having to use Ronon as a 'oh, must be season two' gage. It is interesting to note the corresponding growth in Ronon fic with that of season two ... but yeah. Even then it is still not handling the end of the season but around Hive.

Even in meta it is interesting to see people talk about 'dark John' and then use the example of him killing the Genii with the shield ... and nothing from season two. Weirdly parallels the grabs that are taken from the end; the Orion, any scene that resonates with a OTP moment, 'down time' intespersed between the main plot ... all else is neatly dodged. Seems fandom is holding its collective breath over something and I am pretty sure it is not who survives. :)

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but the F-302 only fits two people and they have to leave Ronon behind.

*chortle!!*

Perfectly reasonable decision. After all, he does take up so much space. Reminds me of when we heard that they were going to kill a B7 character in the first season. Of course it had to be Gan. He took up so much screen space...

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Why don't you write? Damn it, why don't you write?

I would love to see the darker turn on John, Weir, Carson and Rodney. There were a hell of a lot of decisions that were more than a little morally dubious, but not even in fic are they announced. This is not criticism of the writers, because I didn't do it myself, so I can't judge other writers, but it does seem interesting.

Or is it simply because a character study, and fall-out from those decisions wouldn't strictly be in need of porn and everyone is just after NC-17 fics? ;o)

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Yeah. I came in from primarily the Buffy fandom which was all (ok mostly) about how fucked up the characters were and just how far you can take someone (any of them!) and either rebuild, redeem, grind into the dust or flay alive. Somedays it was like watching a car crash because of bad, wrong and dubious choices.

Here, there are writers who are interested in discussing these things and writing about it, but they seem to keep falling back into season one. As I just said above to

eretria people talk Dark!John and think the The Storm. Whereas I think Michael. The whole Teyla and her Wraithness and her interaction with Michael has been at best glanced at. As for Weir, she has many characterisation issues, but this doesn't negate the fact that some of these are fascinating and should be explored.

Perhaps some of these topics are a little revealing for an author in a story though? It is hard to separate the characterisation from personal opinion. Characterisation that it is damn hard to pinpoint at the moment without more. Or a justification for it all. Huh.

Oh and there is not much room for the crack!fic. :P

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Nor is it conducive to that beloved crack!fic that we are all hanging out for. :P I don't see why it wouldn't be conducive to NC-17 rated stuff, but then I don't necessarily see porn as being independent of plot or character exploration.

I would love to see the established darker side to them all and how they handle it. If anything this season we have come closer to seeing that than at any other time and that is just fascinating. Largely because they don't handle it. Which leads to interesting ideas about fandom tropes and how so much relies on them being able to work to a conclusion that is happy/resolved. Only the truly angsty ones aren't ... and it is difficult to write sympathetic characters when they are dubious and you disagree.

Now I am just pontificating.

*snort* I don't write because I am crap at it? I can set atmosphere and do descriptive work but I can't write character voice/style or plot to save my life. The only difference between badfic and my writing is that I can generally spell. :)

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I think the big difference between something like The Storm and Critical Mass or Michael is that John's actions first in The Storm are safe. They are dark, yes, violent and perpetrated with cold precision, but nevertheless safe. This was John Sheppard protecting Atlantis from outside forces, and using whatever force he felt necessary to do so.

Michael, in particular, is a very interesting case in point. Carson has developed a bio-weapon to such a degree that it now requires testing. The fact that it is going to strip the bug-dna from a creature that only ever had mimicked human was never touched upon. Only Teyla had reservations about deceiving Michael. Ronon certainly didn't. He just wanted Michael dead.
This was then followed up nicely, in my opinion, in Allies, where Atlantis was forced to consider their plan carried to its extreme conclusion - the production of a captive food source for those Wraith not infected. I liked how Carson stuttered for a moment, but they were committed to their plan by then, and the Wraith weren't about about to let them back out. But only Carson had momentary reservations, from my recollecting.

Where am I going with this? If I could write, I'd be all over the latter part of season 2. I'd be digging into all their heads, but especially Elizabeth's and Carson's. The fodder for plot/character pieces etc is huge!

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Thank you, that was the point I was trying to make all be it rather badly. These are very different types of dark (although related) and one is much more easy to quantify and possibly even sexy. The other? It really is dubious and unsettling. Without the sex appeal. Apparently this does matter a lot ya know. :P The other is damned hard to write because not only are you going to have to be spot on with characterisation there is also going to have to be a lot of speculating and meta involved in the fic. Not to mention you can't just 'fix' it and make it right either because that kind of experimentation cannot be undone. Ignored, but not undone.

Damn hard to write about in a fic though and especially if it is a shippy fic, and well ... SGA doesn't have that much gen. How does this affect all their interactions? Not just on a gen level, which is perhaps where the exploration would work best. The ramifications are enormous and across all characters/ships/schools and yeah I can see why fandom hasn't quite digested it yet. Even in meta there is a certain hesistancy to discuss Allies and beyond.

That would be the key - so much, too much and it will take awhile to filter through. Not to mention a holding of breath until we see what happens in season three on a character level.

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