eretria

A slight addendum on my choice of only when it would benefit the story. I'd give concrit to a story if I thought it would benefit the writer, the story and if I have double checked their public posts to see what they are like there. Also I am not going to concrit without giving them some sort of praise for what is solid in the story.

I save the ripping of hearts out for my students. :)

Typos can go in comments, but serious concrit? Always to an email address.

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I completely agree on the typos thing. But that (anonymous!) comment I saw put serious, almost degrading criticism in a comment, and then went on to lament over-used plot-points in fiction in general. Well, there's a difference between fanon and something being overused, for one, secondly, if you interpret something in a certain way, would you go up to the author and say: "We know that you love writing this and that, but it was totally indulgent and (so the gist) selfish of you to put it in here and it destroys the fic", and then, really: If I want to give concrit this harsh, then fucking hell, e-mail it, and don't put it out for everyone to see. Authors are human, too, you know. Having something this harsh out there publically hurts. The author of the story might disagree, but if this were my story, I'd be hurt.

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Jesus.
That isn't concrit, it is taking out personal issues on an author. If I see something that is repeatedly used and annoying then generally I just shrug and put it down to not being my cup of tea. Not accusing the author of NOT TAKING ME INTO ACCOUNT DAMMIT. Let alone doing it in a cowardly, public manner. Perhaps if I was really upset I'd do a post on trends in fiction without mentioning names, but ye gods.
I hope the author just screens the comment and doesn't listen to the screeching. The whole point of concrit is the constructive part. Not venom.

Which story is the comment on?

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Argh! I want to tick more than one box in each section! But, then again, I am contrary.

Basically, the extent of public concrit I will give to an author who doesn't know me, and isn't expecting it, is they they may want to consider a beta. And I only type that if I have something positive to say about the story first, and if there is not a beta credited. And if the story only needs a little tweaking.

If the story needs walluping amounts of work, I back away, don't comment, and certainly don't email them. I never give unsolicited concrit beyond the suggestion of the use of a beta.

Now, if an author asks for a beta, then all bets are off, but all contact is done in private. And I haven't deaded a writer yet... *g*

This is probably going to muddy the waters, but I seeing reviewing or reccing as different to feedback or concrit. If I rec a story on my own lj then I see no problem with giving my opinion. I have not had to do this so far, as I rarely rec, and only stuff I adore. But I don't feel I'd have a problem saying if a story I recced could have done with a tighter beta, whether punctuation etc could have been clearer, or whether a writer tended toward wordiness or, heaven forbid, purple prose. But I would only say these against the overall joy I got from a story. I see no point in reccing a story I didn't like. But that's just me.

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monanotlisa.livejournal.com

If the story needs walluping amounts of work, I back away, don't comment, and certainly don't email them.

Yup.

I only concrit GOOD stories -- stories that show premise but could be improved by things even I, not much of a structurally clever writer, can see.

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Question, though: do you do it out of the blue, or only when you think the author is one who can handle concrit and will respond well to it?

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monanotlisa.livejournal.com

only when you think the author is one who can handle concrit and will respond well to it?

Well, I make sure to check it's not a 13-year-old girl (or boy) -- the writers I've done this to were usually writers I'd stumbled across before and found reasonable enough.

Do I start analysing their writings, LJ posts, and other utterings in order to make sure their fragile souls can handle it? No.

But then, I think harshness that's text-based and not personal is perfectly fine, and definitely desired by yours truly. I will swallow hard, and hate the critic for a moment or two, or pout, sure, but that's just an initial reaction I overcome.

Again with the caveat of the whole exchange being PRIVATE, of course: As my responses to the debate show you, I don't for a second believe all fans are equal, and that all works are judged purely by their merit. The same crappy story and the same well-reasoned critique will get very different reactions depending on who wrote either in fandom; that's just a fact of life.

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I'll just point to my comment to Anne above, mainly because I'm still too damn livid to type it all up again. Yes, I might be making a mountain of a molehill, but still.
There's something called courtesy and politeness. Learn it, people, for god's sake. It might be worth remembering that authors are human, too, and not writing robots. (You do know this isn't directed at you, here, right?)
And, yes, I shall douse my head in ice-water now and have a cup of tea, so I can lead a normal discussion and not make it entirely emotional.

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I hadn't seen the original comment that inspired this post, but, from what you said above, it sounds like the commenter is the one who needs to douse their head in ice water... or get a life.

This is fandom, not professional publishing - where a writer is just as likely to be picked up as rejected for following the trend. If a story is well-written, who cares if it covers an already welltrod path? Does the story bring something new to the table? If not, is it still enjoyable? If so, who the fuck cares if it is not blindingly original??!!!

It's been a bad week for fannish impoliteness, hasn't it? Sigh...

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It's been a bad week for fannish impoliteness, hasn't it?

It so, so has. And I don't get that. Where is that coming from so suddenly? Or has it always been there and I have just lived in a very sheltered little niche?

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Slid in under the wire and hit the link to the story before you screened it. That said, I had intended to go back and read the story in question later tonight, as I adore what has come out of your need for backrub stories so far. And, if I take the time to read a story, I always read the comments too.

So, the author in question did ask for both feedback and concrit. That said, I think it is the height of cowardice to take up that offer but do so anonymously. An opinion should be owned or not ventured, in my opinion anyway. *g*

What concerns me about the concrit is the patronising manner in which it was offered. It wasn't constructive, it was chiding. What was primarily a tender h/c moment was picked apart simply because the commenter felt that one or two points were over-used in general. And he/she chided the writer for it!! That isn't concrit, that is petty. And not putting a name to it makes it worse.

I can actually understand what the commenter was saying in one or two points - but can not agree with them that the writer was failing herself and her audience in using such plot devices. I would have flagged one or two things, as a beta, and - since the writer asked for concrit - would have been happy to have explored one or two of those points with her. In private!!! As someone who is not familiar with her work, yes, one or two things raised questions in my mind. And I would have adored entering into a dialogue with her, privately, to see where she was going with this.

The sad thing, now, is that I would be most concerned doing so with this author, as one idiot has tainted the very same points I would have loved to have explored, and has very likely left open wounds which must not be exacerbated.

Rotten bugger...

You may want to screen this post.

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I feel like leaving it open only to point people here and say: See, this is how it's done. But if you feel more comfortable having it screened, I can do so.

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Nope, don't screen it on my behalf. If you are happy with the content, and the fact that it is quite easy to identify the fic from my comments, then I have no qualms.

I certainly have no problem with the author seeing this, if she ventures over here, and am more than happy for her to contact me if she has any queries about my comments. I'd love to chat with her over the story, but have no intention of rubbing salt into her wounds.

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Agreed whole heartedly.

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Yes! Bugger, bugger, bugger.

One or two points in the story had me going "Oh! Oh" Did she mean this or that? What did she want to do with that throw-away comment?

What I adored, which is actually one of the things miss anon commented on, was how the author took a fannish trope - that of a sentient Atlantis lovingly meeting John Sheppard's every need - and subtly and delicately added a twist that most might not have even noticed, or perhaps more precisely, realised how the author used that twist. I adored how John was not only aware of how they anthropomorphised Atlantis, but how, in this instance, while he was busy caring for Rodney, he was knowingly taking comfort in granting himself that one small illusion. The concept was lovely.

And miss anon trampled on it.

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Yes, it was also one of my favourite parts of the story and a whole new twist on the OTP of John/Atlantis. Sometimes twisting well used tropes can make the heart sing. It is like SGA canon laughing at itself over sci fi plots, but just in fic ... and yeah. Pointless criticism.
As I said, that bit just read as 'it does not fit my tastes, so please remove it', rather than anything useful.

Constructive also means taking into account that this was written quickly, for fun, and it would have been cool to bring up some things privately to explore a little further, perhaps even make it into a part of a larger story. Or put it into context of a larger story already in existence. Anything but that.

Makes my inner beta and polite fan want to rage.

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Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup!

*munchkin nods herself silly*

The beta in me wanted to pounce on that request for concrit with maniacal glee. The psychopath in me wanted to pounce on miss anon with sharp pointy objects...

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kskitten.livejournal.com

I enjoy well-betaed work a lot, and miss it when it's not done. So I sometimes speak up when I enjoyed a story despite the typos/bad grammer/punctuation to say I loved the story but that it needed some work. Mostly, people are responding okay to that.
If the story is unreadable because of netspeak, I rec it to badbuffyfic and don't say anything to the author...

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fatuorum.livejournal.com

Hm, I wish there were check boxes instead? Heh. From your reaction, that anonymous comment sounds pretty bad, and I'm curious how it was worded. Also, that anonymity was probably just a cover for the lack of interest and effort to summon up proper manners.

Regarding the choices, there are quite a number of caveats. The first is that bad grammar/spelling doesn't bother me much, unless if it's really glaring and consistent. Concrit, for me, would encompass more than that, and it's more about the story's potential than the author. Not that the latter doesn't matter; it does, a lot! But -- there's a very big but -- it would have to be an author who welcomes such comments. And this has to depend on what other fics the author had written, and then their reaction to something brief in the comments (hence the direct comment in public). If such a mention did not invite further questioning from the author, then I'll just have to leave it be.

So hm, it's not really a cut and dried set of circumstances.

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nimoloth.livejournal.com

I didn't tick any of the second question because I think any of the options is reasonable.

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amezri.livejournal.com

Having answered the poll, I'd like to add that I only leave criticism in the post if it's a small thing (like typos) or a minor inconsistancy. If the fic is so bad I can't even make it through the story, I tend to just ignore it and move on. Of course, that's if I even bother to leave a comment these days. I am so, so bad at feedbacking now.

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wneleh.livejournal.com

I'll quickly point out, as privately as possible, a glaring factual fault in a new story, without much thought to the potential reaction of the author. I've put a few doosies in my own work, and have been very glad when people have caught them. I also once got what amounted to an unsolicited beta read from someone, which was nice, and needed, and very kindly done, but I wouldn't do this for someone myself. (Basically, I'd been very random about whether I typed out numbers or used numerals, and it drove her crazy; and as long as she was changing the numbers to be what she thought she should be, she figured she'd pass along some other comments as well. In the end, I agreed with about 80% of her changes/comments, IIRC.)

My own LOCs tend toward being completely praisy. I don't usually mention typos - I notice them when I'm reading, but they don't stick with me.

So far, in my LJ I've only reviewed stories/authors I really enjoy, but they don't tend to be 100% positive, just like a review of a published work of any sort wouldn't be completely positive.

I can't imagine faulting someone for overusing a fandom cliche. HELLO?!?!?

- Helen

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auburnnothenna.livejournal.com

Answered the poll above, though I'd like to add that not only is it when I think the story would benefit but when I feel confident I'm not going to tromp the author's toes. Real, genuine constructive criticism is fantastic and in itself a kind of compliment. The reader is engaged enough to think about how and why this or that didn't work and offer suggestions to how it could have worked better. But if that second part isn't there, if there are no suggestions or thoughts about improving the story? That's not constructive, it's petty. There's no real point to criticizing just to knock something and hurt an author. If you really dislike a story that much --> There's the back button. Move on. The same with a published book. Would you write a ranting diatribe to a published author because you didn't care for the plot or the character or the cliches in a book you bought? No. You'd put it down, give it, trade it, or throw it away, and move on, maybe vowing to never waste another dollar on that author's works.

I think a simple typo correction is all right in comments. It's the equivalent of calling to a stranger in a parking lot and saying, "Hey, you left your headlights on." Beyond that, stick to private emails.

Wooo, this comment is going long for me.

From munchkin's comments I can guess which story is in question. I've read it and liked it, bearing in mind how swiftly I know it was written and that it was basically written to order. So if it didn't hit all of my buttons, or used a fandom cliche? Not every story is written for me (wow, what a shocker!) and cliches become cliches because most of us like them.

Excoriating someone publicly while remaining anonymous is tacky, mean, and cowardly.

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