a question, based on SPOILERS for season 4

[eretria]

Since everyone seems to be up in arms over Sam being a recurring character in season 4:
(And, yes, those questions are deliberately provocative for discussion purposes)

Will stories about Sam Carter interacting with SGA characters have it harder now? Be it ship or gen or slash or poly, doesn't matter: But will it be the equivalent to a fandom sacrilege to still like Sam Carter?
Will it be a fandom no-no to write McKay/Carter? Or even a smart Carter? Or will she become the fandom lynchpin?


This question has a background, of course. These kinds of questions rarely ever don't. So ... Will a story about Sam joining the team for a mission after Pegasus Projct (the story that ultimately ends in "A question of perspective") be ripped apart in the air? Spat upon? Ignored? Hated on principle?
I am seriously concerned about this beyond the realm of my own stories. This isn't a call for support, I will finish the story either way, there's far too much written already, but ... what say you?

My point of view on the whole debacle is pretty clear: Chill, people. Caldwell was a recurring character last season as well, and look how often he popped up: Not very much. Even though he was in many episodes, his appearances were sparse. Have a little faith. Yes, there is valid concern over the storylines trying to include Sam, and maybe that'll mean they'll make Rodney a fool or reduce Teyla's role, but, in the end, we do not know. Remember how much everyone protested when Ronon joined the team, and how everyone would hate him and how that would kill the show? Look at it now. He's one of the best loved characters out there.

So ... where does all that leave Sam? And the fanfic writers? To repeat something I said in the discussion below: I do fear that a lot of people will hate Sam on principle now, and that no story can fix that again. See, I like Sam. More in fiction that on screen, because she is a real woman while being a scientist and a soldier, and that mixture is heady and fascinating, but I'm just not sure if the regular reader will make that distinction in case TPTB really do screw up.

Thoughts? Ideas? Rotten tomatoes?

Comments

[cetpar.livejournal.com]

Not if *you* write it. I am afraid about the casting news because of the way TPTB write McKay in most of the Sam-Rodney interactions and because of the possible decrease of screentime for the rest of the SGA cast.

I adored your Sam Carter before the casting news. That's not going to change now. I would happily read your stories because I know you'll treat the characters right. *g*

[eretria.livejournal.com]

You're sweet, kheryn.
However, I do fear that a lot of people will hate Sam on principle now, and that no story can fix that again. See, I like Sam. More in fiction that on screen, because she is a real woman while being a scientist and a soldier, and that mixture is heady and fascinating, but I'm just not sure if the regular reader will make that distinction in case TPTB really do screw up.

[nimnod.livejournal.com]

Sam is good. I like her too. I didn't realise there was a Sam-Hating Thing. Let's hope no-one lynches me. Just don't commit fandom sacrilege; the McShep is sacrosanct =)

[cetpar.livejournal.com]

However, I do fear that a lot of people will hate Sam on principle now, and that no story can fix that again.

Yeah, I understand. It's not quite the same situation as Jonas replacing Daniel (I feel sorry for Jewel Staite already.), but it's similar. I do think there will be some sort of fanfic backlash against Sam because of this, but severity will depend on how the situation is handled onscreen.

I think, though, that the fanfic backlash may be more of the not wanting to read the story at all rather than ripping it apart/flaming in comments. Which is still disheartening, but not as traumatic maybe? I still think there will be fans who will happily read Sam SGA fanfic that is well written, regardless of what happens on the show, but your concerns are justified.

I don't think that helped you at all, sorry.

Now, I *really* am going to (try) and go to sleep. I have to be up in three hours. Insomnia sucks!

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

I've never really warmed to Sam - she's always been too perfect, and I've always grooved on the Jack-Daniel dynamic.

That's what fanfic is for - to create, or bring out, aspects of Sam that are interesting. Go for it!

- Helen

[sorchasilver.livejournal.com]

I already dislike Sam from SG1 (she has always annoyed me) and seeing her on SGA is't something I'm looking forward to at all. Fanfic has never made me like her either. I do have concerns, particularly about the way that show depicts Rodney when interacting with her. Having said that, I'm willing to wait and see what happens in season 4 and do not wish to prejudge the show or the direction it is taking. I'm apprehensive but hopeful, I guess.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Do go to bed. 3 hours is far too little sleep.
(And, boy, yes, do I feel sorry for Jewel.)

There haven't been that many Sam fans to begin with, something I never quite understood, because, apart from how TPTB have handled her character, she was always likeable to me - as the woman she should be more than the one she was portrayed as. Then again, I'm only a sporadic SG-1 viewer throughout its many seasons and may only have caught the good episodes. But, coming back to what I meant to say: Not that many Sam fans, so I never expect fic about her to get a big response, and am, quite frankly, very surprised when there is a response at all. It delights me, but I do fear that the few people who tolerated her before won't anymore now.
As stated above, this is neither market research nor begging for comments, it's just curiosity.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

See, this is odd, because I never "grooved" on SG-1, because they were all too perfect and too heroic for my taste, but I did like Sam. Maybe that makes me odd, but, well.
There still is a lot to unravel that hasn't been yet, so I would love to see more people tackling her character to bring out what they're missing in canon.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Funny that quite a few people say that Sam annoys them. What is so annoying about her? And, why, if people think the character choices made by the show's writers were wrong, has nobody tried to fix that, and turn her into a character that could be likeable?
And, you know, in a way, especially looking at M&MM, I think they've become far better at depicting Rodney around Sam. I have concerns here as well, seeing how Rodney is the heart of the show for me, but ... I refuse to give up on the show just because there are changes on the horizon.

[enname.livejournal.com]

This is my opinion on everything at the moment: Breathe.

*nod* Full of sage uselessness and ripe idiocy, but really. The world needs to breathe about all the spoilers. Change had to happen sometime, and well. Could be worse. Could be Daniel. :P

My main problem is that I prefer not to see anyone from SG-1 on SGA, but that is my problem and I hardly think the writing team is going to cater to me and me alone.

As for the stories ... depends on the plot, the writing quality and well. Breaking me out of a ootp is nigh on impossible, so I won't be reading Sam/Mckay unless you are writing it. :)

How is that for totally useless? :P

[valderys.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit unsure about the Sam thing, not because I don't like her - I do. It's more a worry because I'm a Zelenka fan, and with Sam in the picture to help Rodney deliver all the tech speak, TPTB have even less reason to keep Zelenka on the show. Wah!

I'm a fan of the John & Rodney show aka Stargate:Atlantis

[aqualegia.livejournal.com]

Well, since you asked:

I fell in love with Atlantis when my friend showed me the pilot Rising. As far as SG-1 is concerned I was never a fan. I liked Jack and Daniel, Teal'c was okay, but I really disliked Sam Carter... and although I've now watched most of the episodes (I got the box sets really, really cheap), I haven't changed my mind about her. I have, however, enjoyed wathing Daniel and Vala together.

As for romance between Sam and Rodney... No, thank you. I definitely haven't enjoyed the interactions between them at all.

As I said, I fell in love with Atlantis, I enjoyed season 1, and I've really enjoyed season 3 (except for The Real World), it's been miles better than season 2 (disliked a few episodes there like Epiphany, The Tower, and hated Grace Under Pressure), but with the current spoilers/rumours... I'm a little fearful of what my favourite show is going to become. I shall continue watching as long as the friendship & banter between John & Rodney continues at, or exceeds, its current level - if it disappears then, in all probability, so shall I. What I don't want to see is any romance between Sam and any Atlantis personnel, or any large amounts of screen time, which could affect my enjoyment.

[sorchasilver.livejournal.com]

What is so annoying about her?

For me, she's never been a interesting or likeable character, but I'm not quite sure why. I find her tolerable most of the time (I suppose don't actively dislike her, so much as I just don't care), but her incessant mooning over Jack got on my nerves, not just because I am a Jack/Daniel fan but because it was unprofessional and made her character seem somwehat pathetic to me. It also didn't seem to be consistent, which was more to do with the writing than the character.

And, why, if people think the character choices made by the show's writers were wrong, has nobody tried to fix that, and turn her into a character that could be likeable?

I take it you mean in fanfic? I don't know, maybe they have but I haven't read it. I only read slash fanfic, and in SG1 that means Jack/Daniel for me.

looking at M&MM, I think they've become far better at depicting Rodney around Sam

Agree to disagree? I didn't like the interaction in M&MM any better than what came before.

I refuse to give up on the show just because there are changes on the horizon.

Agreed. I'll be looking forward to season 4. If there are significant problems, I'll moan about them then. Pre-emptive whingeing not helpful. And I'm looking forward to seeing Jewel Staite on the show.

[lilyayl.livejournal.com]

So.... since this thread is marked spoilers, can we say what we like?

I heard that there may be replicators in Pegasus. Do you think that maybe Sam goes there purely to deal with those? That her storyline will remain a side constant and won't cross over the main stories as much?

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Is it actually possible to reduce Teyla's role?

*wide, innocent smile*

I'm okay with it, obviously. I would prefer Vala, but how do they say? DAS LEBEN IST KEIN WUNSCHKONZERT! & ;-)

You, go write Sam. I like your Sam and her interaction with the boys, so even if a few folks sneer -- what of them?

[sorchasilver.livejournal.com]

Thinking about it a bit more, and reading other posts, I suspect it is probably the "perfect" thing that bugs me most. Sam is frequently presented by the writers as some sort of "ideal woman", she doesn't make mistakes, she's a genius, and saves the day and blah blah blah. It felt to me Sam being wonderful was forced upon us and we were expected to love her. She never seemed like a real person, with flaws and problems. I got the feeling she was the writers' idea of a perfect woman, but not a realistic one. (I have a degree of the same problem with Elizabeth Weir, whom I'm not that fond of either, although to a much lesser extent). The rest of SG1 were much more interesting characters to me.

[kalikahuntress.livejournal.com]

I'm not happy about Sam coming to Atlantis, not ready to write off the show yet either but I've always adored your Sam in the fic you write, reminds me of back in the day when Sam was a three-dimensional character and quite likeable.

[volari.livejournal.com]

As far as canon, I'm going to wait. Again, because the dynamics and characters of the two shows are so very different (heroes vs. guys they sent to another galaxy) I'm not sure how they would mesh. Or, she could be like Caldwell and show up occassionally to beam them out of a volcano.

As far as fic, my first thought was, "Hey, now Eretria will have an easier time with her threesomes!" Because that would be fantastic.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

"Hey, now Eretria will have an easier time with her threesomes!"

*laughs, laughs, laughs and laughs*

Seriously. All people think about is sex these days, isn't it? ;o) It's funny that Kat said the very same thing last night.
(When did I become known for threesomes? Where was I when that happened?)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Is it actually possible to reduce Teyla's role?

Ah. Well. Point taken. ;o)

Well, if it helps at all, Vala's in the story, and quite the troublemaker. And I sort of doubt that we have seen the rest of her, either. They'll all be back, somehow. But I really doubt Sam will be stationed on Atlantis, because - come on. She already has a team.

So, you're telling me, if there is sneering, we'll sneer right back? I'm okay with that plan. ;o)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

There you go. I like that line of thinking. Not everything is an immediate disaster just because it changes things we're used to.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Point taken. ;o)

I knew you'd understand. ::bats eylashes::

But I really doubt Sam will be stationed on Atlantis, because - come on. She already has a team.

Think so, too. While I'm sure Amanda Tapping loves, well, WORK, I'm pretty sure she and the writers are fond of the old SG-1 image, too.

So, you're telling me, if there is sneering, we'll sneer right back? I'm okay with that plan. ;o)

I somehow thought you just might. *g*

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Also, OH MY GOD, APPLICATIONS!

In between talking on the phone, and making appointments, and ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Re: I'm a fan of the John & Rodney show aka Stargate:Atlantis

[eretria.livejournal.com]

So, to cut it short: You don't really like most female characters at all?

See, I do have faith in the writers, because they realised that with the John/Rodney banter reduced last season, fans were upset, so they brought it back this season. There is no real reason to change it back to its season 2 status.
However, what we shouldn't forget is that this isn't the John and Rodney show, even though we like to think so (heck, I do, too). It's a sci-fi show that has its targeted audience in men, not women. And young men at that. Boys, almost. So ... I consider it better to expect less and be surprised when they deliver more than the other way around. This show doesn't cater the McShep shippers. And, actually, I like it better that way. Because if it would, I fear it would get boring quite soon, because - have you ever seen a stargate writer handling romance well? ;o)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

*points to icon*