a question, based on SPOILERS for season 4

[eretria]

Since everyone seems to be up in arms over Sam being a recurring character in season 4:
(And, yes, those questions are deliberately provocative for discussion purposes)

Will stories about Sam Carter interacting with SGA characters have it harder now? Be it ship or gen or slash or poly, doesn't matter: But will it be the equivalent to a fandom sacrilege to still like Sam Carter?
Will it be a fandom no-no to write McKay/Carter? Or even a smart Carter? Or will she become the fandom lynchpin?


This question has a background, of course. These kinds of questions rarely ever don't. So ... Will a story about Sam joining the team for a mission after Pegasus Projct (the story that ultimately ends in "A question of perspective") be ripped apart in the air? Spat upon? Ignored? Hated on principle?
I am seriously concerned about this beyond the realm of my own stories. This isn't a call for support, I will finish the story either way, there's far too much written already, but ... what say you?

My point of view on the whole debacle is pretty clear: Chill, people. Caldwell was a recurring character last season as well, and look how often he popped up: Not very much. Even though he was in many episodes, his appearances were sparse. Have a little faith. Yes, there is valid concern over the storylines trying to include Sam, and maybe that'll mean they'll make Rodney a fool or reduce Teyla's role, but, in the end, we do not know. Remember how much everyone protested when Ronon joined the team, and how everyone would hate him and how that would kill the show? Look at it now. He's one of the best loved characters out there.

So ... where does all that leave Sam? And the fanfic writers? To repeat something I said in the discussion below: I do fear that a lot of people will hate Sam on principle now, and that no story can fix that again. See, I like Sam. More in fiction that on screen, because she is a real woman while being a scientist and a soldier, and that mixture is heady and fascinating, but I'm just not sure if the regular reader will make that distinction in case TPTB really do screw up.

Thoughts? Ideas? Rotten tomatoes?

Comments

[cetpar.livejournal.com]

Not if *you* write it. I am afraid about the casting news because of the way TPTB write McKay in most of the Sam-Rodney interactions and because of the possible decrease of screentime for the rest of the SGA cast.

I adored your Sam Carter before the casting news. That's not going to change now. I would happily read your stories because I know you'll treat the characters right. *g*

[eretria.livejournal.com]

You're sweet, kheryn.
However, I do fear that a lot of people will hate Sam on principle now, and that no story can fix that again. See, I like Sam. More in fiction that on screen, because she is a real woman while being a scientist and a soldier, and that mixture is heady and fascinating, but I'm just not sure if the regular reader will make that distinction in case TPTB really do screw up.

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

I've never really warmed to Sam - she's always been too perfect, and I've always grooved on the Jack-Daniel dynamic.

That's what fanfic is for - to create, or bring out, aspects of Sam that are interesting. Go for it!

- Helen

[eretria.livejournal.com]

See, this is odd, because I never "grooved" on SG-1, because they were all too perfect and too heroic for my taste, but I did like Sam. Maybe that makes me odd, but, well.
There still is a lot to unravel that hasn't been yet, so I would love to see more people tackling her character to bring out what they're missing in canon.

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

she's always been too perfect

I've heard this before, and I don't understand. She's fucked up a lot. More than Daniel and Jack have, and a hell of a lot more than Teal'c.

She destroyed a sun and took a populated planet with it (until the Asgard intervened). She obeyed an illegal order and nearly killed her teammate as well as an entire species. She got Teal'c stuck in a stargate buffer. She's failed at things that haven't been broadcast in the US yet.

How is that perfect?

[sorchasilver.livejournal.com]

I already dislike Sam from SG1 (she has always annoyed me) and seeing her on SGA is't something I'm looking forward to at all. Fanfic has never made me like her either. I do have concerns, particularly about the way that show depicts Rodney when interacting with her. Having said that, I'm willing to wait and see what happens in season 4 and do not wish to prejudge the show or the direction it is taking. I'm apprehensive but hopeful, I guess.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Funny that quite a few people say that Sam annoys them. What is so annoying about her? And, why, if people think the character choices made by the show's writers were wrong, has nobody tried to fix that, and turn her into a character that could be likeable?
And, you know, in a way, especially looking at M&MM, I think they've become far better at depicting Rodney around Sam. I have concerns here as well, seeing how Rodney is the heart of the show for me, but ... I refuse to give up on the show just because there are changes on the horizon.

[enname.livejournal.com]

This is my opinion on everything at the moment: Breathe.

*nod* Full of sage uselessness and ripe idiocy, but really. The world needs to breathe about all the spoilers. Change had to happen sometime, and well. Could be worse. Could be Daniel. :P

My main problem is that I prefer not to see anyone from SG-1 on SGA, but that is my problem and I hardly think the writing team is going to cater to me and me alone.

As for the stories ... depends on the plot, the writing quality and well. Breaking me out of a ootp is nigh on impossible, so I won't be reading Sam/Mckay unless you are writing it. :)

How is that for totally useless? :P

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Could be worse. Could be Daniel. :P

*falls off the chair laughing*

Thank you.

And: stop flattering me, you. (*squish*)

[sgafan33.livejournal.com]

Daniel would actually make sense. We don;t have anyone on Atlantis with his skill set, unless you count Elizabeth. And she shouldn't be going off world.

[valderys.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit unsure about the Sam thing, not because I don't like her - I do. It's more a worry because I'm a Zelenka fan, and with Sam in the picture to help Rodney deliver all the tech speak, TPTB have even less reason to keep Zelenka on the show. Wah!

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Hm. Point taken. But, who knows, maybe in the end, Radek survives and Sam bites the bullet? They've become rather unpredictable that way, and that' what's making me enjoy the show.

I'm a fan of the John & Rodney show aka Stargate:Atlantis

[aqualegia.livejournal.com]

Well, since you asked:

I fell in love with Atlantis when my friend showed me the pilot Rising. As far as SG-1 is concerned I was never a fan. I liked Jack and Daniel, Teal'c was okay, but I really disliked Sam Carter... and although I've now watched most of the episodes (I got the box sets really, really cheap), I haven't changed my mind about her. I have, however, enjoyed wathing Daniel and Vala together.

As for romance between Sam and Rodney... No, thank you. I definitely haven't enjoyed the interactions between them at all.

As I said, I fell in love with Atlantis, I enjoyed season 1, and I've really enjoyed season 3 (except for The Real World), it's been miles better than season 2 (disliked a few episodes there like Epiphany, The Tower, and hated Grace Under Pressure), but with the current spoilers/rumours... I'm a little fearful of what my favourite show is going to become. I shall continue watching as long as the friendship & banter between John & Rodney continues at, or exceeds, its current level - if it disappears then, in all probability, so shall I. What I don't want to see is any romance between Sam and any Atlantis personnel, or any large amounts of screen time, which could affect my enjoyment.

Re: I'm a fan of the John & Rodney show aka Stargate:Atlantis

[eretria.livejournal.com]

So, to cut it short: You don't really like most female characters at all?

See, I do have faith in the writers, because they realised that with the John/Rodney banter reduced last season, fans were upset, so they brought it back this season. There is no real reason to change it back to its season 2 status.
However, what we shouldn't forget is that this isn't the John and Rodney show, even though we like to think so (heck, I do, too). It's a sci-fi show that has its targeted audience in men, not women. And young men at that. Boys, almost. So ... I consider it better to expect less and be surprised when they deliver more than the other way around. This show doesn't cater the McShep shippers. And, actually, I like it better that way. Because if it would, I fear it would get boring quite soon, because - have you ever seen a stargate writer handling romance well? ;o)

[lilyayl.livejournal.com]

So.... since this thread is marked spoilers, can we say what we like?

I heard that there may be replicators in Pegasus. Do you think that maybe Sam goes there purely to deal with those? That her storyline will remain a side constant and won't cross over the main stories as much?

[eretria.livejournal.com]

There you go. I like that line of thinking. Not everything is an immediate disaster just because it changes things we're used to.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Is it actually possible to reduce Teyla's role?

*wide, innocent smile*

I'm okay with it, obviously. I would prefer Vala, but how do they say? DAS LEBEN IST KEIN WUNSCHKONZERT! & ;-)

You, go write Sam. I like your Sam and her interaction with the boys, so even if a few folks sneer -- what of them?

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Is it actually possible to reduce Teyla's role?

Ah. Well. Point taken. ;o)

Well, if it helps at all, Vala's in the story, and quite the troublemaker. And I sort of doubt that we have seen the rest of her, either. They'll all be back, somehow. But I really doubt Sam will be stationed on Atlantis, because - come on. She already has a team.

So, you're telling me, if there is sneering, we'll sneer right back? I'm okay with that plan. ;o)

[kalikahuntress.livejournal.com]

I'm not happy about Sam coming to Atlantis, not ready to write off the show yet either but I've always adored your Sam in the fic you write, reminds me of back in the day when Sam was a three-dimensional character and quite likeable.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

*squish* You're way too kind.

[volari.livejournal.com]

As far as canon, I'm going to wait. Again, because the dynamics and characters of the two shows are so very different (heroes vs. guys they sent to another galaxy) I'm not sure how they would mesh. Or, she could be like Caldwell and show up occassionally to beam them out of a volcano.

As far as fic, my first thought was, "Hey, now Eretria will have an easier time with her threesomes!" Because that would be fantastic.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

"Hey, now Eretria will have an easier time with her threesomes!"

*laughs, laughs, laughs and laughs*

Seriously. All people think about is sex these days, isn't it? ;o) It's funny that Kat said the very same thing last night.
(When did I become known for threesomes? Where was I when that happened?)

[raisintorte.livejournal.com]

Personally - I hope there is an influx of *good Sam on Atlantis fic. She's my favorite character to read/write/watch. I'm happy she's going over to SGA, but I would be equally happy having her never appear.

*By good, I mean fic that writes Sam in a non character bashing way, or as someone who ruins the show. I'm sure there will be plenty of John and Rodney sit around and talk about how they wish Sam wasn't there stories.

I do fear that a lot of people will hate Sam on principle now, and that no story can fix that again.

I think that is going to be a big problem as well. A lot of the people who didn't mind Sam showing up in occasional Atlantis fic with Rodney and John don't want her on Atlantis - and they aren't going to want to read her in fic. People read what they like and if they perceive Sam is screwing up their show - then they aren't going to want to read/enjoy Sam fic.

I'm taking a wait and see attitude - for all the hoopla going on right now it could end up being a non event. (I hope.)

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I'm actually looking forward to Sam being on SGA. I think it has a LOT of potential for disaster, so I'll probably be watching through my fingers, but I like the way she and McKay spark off each other and I think there's also the possibility (however slim) that it will be fun and interesting. Especially if we get someone like Martin Gero writing rather than the regular SG1 writers.

Ultimately, for me, SGA might as well be The Rodney McKay show, and whether or not I continue to watch/enjoy it will depend on what they do with and/or to Rodney's character, irrespective of who else is on the show.

[kuwdora.livejournal.com]

Rodney has the ability to piss everyone off. John doesn't necessarily set Rodney's anger off like Sam could does. I'm looking at this as a good thing. I think John and Sam will have a few things in common, and shaking up things for John would be good. I think Sam being in Atlantis will give Teyla another slice of female authority figures from Earth which I believe to be good, too. I haven't figured how Ronon will act, but he seems to be adverse to change but that too will shake things up.

I think the writers have done a poor job of giving all characters equal screentime in the first place and this probably won't help, but I don't want my show to be static. Static is boring and if the show isn't making you angry or pissed off or happier than a hog in mud then I don't think it's doing it's job.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I don't expect to see a lot of immediate changes in response to FF, although I could be wrong; sure, some people will hate Sam on principle, but those people probably already are avoiding stories that feature her prominently. People who are open to stories featuring Sam now will probably continue to be open to them, at least in the short run.

In the long run, people's reaction to Sam-in-Atlantis in FF will depend on how it's handled in the canon, and given that this is SGA, that could go in any direction. I can think of many good and bad ways this can go (and a few random impossible dreams, like - I would love to see what would happen if Sam replaced Weir as head of Atlantis), but worrying is pointless and waaaaay beforehand. We'll see what happens when we get there.

Of course, that's easy for me to say. I'm insulated; I've seen half of season one, none of two, none of three. Eventually I will see some of the later eps (assuming they are ever released on region 1 DVD - what is up with that?), but - for me, this fandom is about the fan fiction. So I won't have a problem unless whatever changes there are cause there to be less FF, or FF that's less appealing to me. And if either of those things happens, I will be very sad, but right now I'm reveling in the goodness and not worrying overmuch about tomorrow.

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

I think it all comes down to the ability of readers to keep an open mind.

I'll leave interpretation of that up to you.

I will read any McKay/Carter I can get my hands on, and if it's well-written, all the better.

But will it be the equivalent to a fandom sacrilege to still like Sam Carter?

Fuck that. Following the crowd is for people who can't think for themselves.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Following the crowd is for people who can't think for themselves.

If this came across as though I was asking if I was still allowed to like her, then let me give a hearty laugh and ease your mind. I like her. Just because others don't will not make me ditch a character I really enjoy, especially in well-written stories, someone with the potential to be a grown up woman instead the the girly, girly teenage girl Weir is so often (which is so many kinds of horrible, I can hardly begin to tell where irritation morphs into rage) portrayed as in stories (especially Sheppard/Weir stories, but, actually, most shippy stories featuring her. It's as though people have problems with the concept of a women in her thirties to fourties.).

[amezri.livejournal.com]

Hm. My like or dislike of Sam really depends on how she is written. I generally hated her on SG-1 because she was written so poorly, but in some fics, she's perfectly fine.

For example, I really love her on SGA. The imaginary Sam was totally fun and the Sam of McKay & Mrs. Miller had a hint of that imaginary Sam. She was just not as annoying to me as she is in SG1. I think that has a lot to do with who is writing the script so...

I'm not sure I actually answered your question.

[sgafan33.livejournal.com]

Isn't Sam a full Colonel? Doesn't that mean she outranks Sheppard? What's going to happen with that?

I was never a big fan of SG1. There was some good scifi there but somehow it didn't grab me like Atlantis did. Maybe because SG1 was military based and Atlantis is a scientific expedition. More geeks for me! And, like others have said before, the team just seemed too perfect. Sure, there were mistakes made, but nobody seemed to get yelled at like Elizabeth yelled at Rodney. Or maybe they did and I just missed those episodes.

If we're spoiling Season 4, can I spoil "Sunday"?

Can't we have Rodney smarter than Sam in something? After all, he's been the Pegasus Galaxy for 3 years. Rodney must be smarter than Sam in Wraith tech just from experience. And he lives in an Ancient city, that experience should count for something, too.

And yeah, put me down as wanting more Teyla and Elizabeth, not more Sam. It's like Worf going from Star Trek: The Next Generation to Deep Space Nine. If I wanted a Klingon on the new show (and I really didn't), I'd like to have a new one.

My crossover characters from SG1 are Elizabeth and Rodney, thank you. Oh, and Lorne, even if he did have a different name!

[sga-nim.livejournal.com]

Just friended you - hello =)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Why, hello.
Any particular reason why?

[agent-dark.livejournal.com]

Sam on Atlantis has me really excited. I mean, SG1 has ended so I was very sad because no more Sam :( but now she'll be on Atlantis so yay! :D Sam/Atlantis fics are some of my favourite (especially the ones you have done, and I'm not even into m/m slash :P). So the more Sam in Atlantis fic, the better :)