eretria

Yes. Yes, yes, and YES.

The story was Amireal's, by the way. And, yes, gorgeous.
I don't think that even though things seem to be working a bit more straight forward in a gay relationship, they go from: Hey, attracted to you to "whoa, let's have sex RIGHT NOW".
Not realistic. And not really what I want to read.
And, uhm ... is this how people's relationships normally go? Because I don't think it's girly to not jump in the sack immediately. Or is it? I'd really like to know, because almost every single slash story does it and I wonder where this trope comes from.

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friendshipper.livejournal.com

Amireal, yes! I loved that story...

And, yeah, I don't really have a clue if the straight-to-sex thing correlates with the real-life guy experience or gay-guy experience; I don't know too many gay guys in real life, but the ones I do know are as sexually diverse as the straight people I know. I think

monanotlisa is probably right in her comment below; long stories with a lot of build-up are hard and take a long time to write. But the straight-to-sex element to slash is a big reason why, in my early fannish days, I developed an idea that slash was "all about the sex" and it took me a very long time to look past that and discover that there is a lot of emotional intimacy to it, as well. I still read for the emotional aspects more than the sex.

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I think it's actually most readers that like longer stories with build-up (and yes, some obstacles and angst); it's just that too few writers can or will take the time and the effort involved in writing this long journey (which is why love, love, love stories like Intersections or Hindsight, and why I co-wrote Ardhanarishvara). I'm no exception, alas, which is why the vast majority of my stories are gen fics, drabbles.

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friendshipper.livejournal.com

I think you're probably right about the long build-up. It's been very interesting to me lately to actually *ask* slash fans what they want from slash, because as someone who just dabbles around the edges of slash fandom, I'd long had the idea that slash fans are mostly in it for the sex, and it's been interesting to me to find out that that's very much untrue. In fact, from recent discussions I'd even say that the majority of slash fans are drawn to it by the emotional intimacy and romance, and *not* the sex. Of course, everyone reads for slightly different reasons...

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as someone who just dabbles around the edges of slash fandom, I'd long had the idea that slash fans are mostly in it for the sex, and it's been interesting to me to find out that that's very much untrue.

Well, we all have our pre-conceived notions of The Others, but once we actually interact with them, they usually turn out to be Not That Different, After All. & ;-)

I say that as someone who right now mainly writes slash (McKay/Sheppard) but who has read and written a lot of het (Buffy/Spike, Syd/PrettyGuyOnAlias, John/Aeryn) and started out by writing femslash (Buffy/Faith). I have yet to see substantial differences in the enormous love people have for longer, plotty, well-characterised stories.

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selfinduced.livejournal.com

all the ones you listed are great. but one more thing:

GIRLS.

i like girls. a lot. and when i started watching Lantis, i thought "Oh! Weir is going to be cool!"...and then she wasn't.

with few exceptions, the girls don't get much screentime showing personality other than little clips of their stereotype. (This is Teyla. She can kick your ass while wearing a skirt that shows all of her shiny, shiny legs. She can't cook, and she sings a random Celtic song once. The end. or This Dr. Weir. She's the leader, so she wears red and is supposed to be Very Smart. But you never see her do much but say "You have a go." and "Do it." a lot. The end.)

they don't get cool episodes with stuff like super powers that let them STEAL DONUTS or levitate people, and being playful and fun and awesome. maybe it's because they just don't know how to write girls being funny/bantering (especially with each other!) and being cute, but i would love to see it in fanfiction at least.

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YES. EVERY WORD OF THAT.

I think I love you. Who are you?

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selfinduced.livejournal.com

*ducks head and grins shyly*

aw, shucks, ma'am. i jes' be a lowly fic reader.

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Hee! THAT ICON OMG: JULIAN!

Also: Dude, Goa-what? Never thought of that. & ;-)

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selfinduced.livejournal.com

*nods* teh Flan in a bow-tie is made of awesome.

Goa'uld=first evil aliens in the Stargate universe...um, Caldwell was taken as a host by one at some point? the smile on Cadman's face is totally smug and evil in the best way and when i first saw it, i thought the red electrodes attached to her head looked a bit like cute little devil horns and ... i digress. but! the fish in front of her looks like a larval Goa'uld, and so i was all "OMG WHAT AU IS THAT?" ... *is easily excited by random potential plot-lines*

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DUDE, I AM CO-WRITING THE PLOTTIEST THING EVER! Not my fault you're not into Ronon bein' romanced, or too hot on g-switching....

Also, did you read Crys's latest story? It fulfills more than one of the criteria here....

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Babydoll? Stop pushing the issue. Really. Please. Better for the both of us.

And, no. Got two anti-recs against your positive rec, so I'm wagering that I'm going to give it a miss, probably. *sigh*
It's so hard to find stories when you're over-picky and pms-y. ;o)

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BUT IT'S MY BABY; I WANT EVERYONE TO LOVE IT!!11!!!

And oh, I see -- if you got anti-recs from people who match your taste very closely, trust them. We do have common fic interests, but there are also a few roads diverging in yellow woods....

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But this, without wanting to sound mean, is one of the cases where I'm not good at babysitting. So, just give it a rest, hm?
Be proud of it all you want, your cowriter and you can be proud of it, but please just accept that I will not read it for all the reasons you know.
Okay, dear? *smooches your cheek*

Yeah, pretty close matches. Thanks for understanding. *squish*

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Heh. I'd give you my real baby, but well, that would not offend your tastes, I'm thinking.

And oh, please -- different strokes, 'tis fine. & :-) You can disagree in character or fic discussion till the cows come home. (I'm touchy, it's true, but generally not regarding you, and not regarding other folks' fannish stuff. Then I'm just really annoying. *g*)

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REAL babies are an entirely different matter. I'm all for babysitting real ones. Little ones! We wants them, precious.

Well, in that case, we're even: I'm really annoying, you're really annoying, together we shall conquer the world!

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I know! Which is why I'd give you mine to cuddle any time. In fact, provided I do find a man some day, I will.

By the way, I cannot tell you how much I loved you for recently stating the difference between "I wish you wouldn't do X" and "HOMG I AM MAKING YOU STOP X!"

Why is fandom so damn afraid of dissenting opinions and thoughts?

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Because fandom is all Monty Python-esque, always willing to shout "Help, I am being oppressed!"
It's easier to feel oppressed than to have a discussion, I guess. Or at least, easier to win an argument when you state that people are oppressing you by having a different opinion than you do.

Men! Hah. I hear they exist, somewhere?

(omg, send me to bed, I need to be at court by 9 a.m. (and then again, after some work, at 2 p.m.)

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It's easier to feel oppressed than to have a discussion, I guess. Or at least, easier to win an argument when you state that people are oppressing you by having a different opinion than you do.

Guess so -- which is what I complained about earlier in some thread: Fans are terrible at keeping the person and the message separate, and that BUGS ME TO NO END. If I say Story X is crap, I am by no means -- and do not at all intend to be -- making ANY statement about Author Y who wrote it. I won't argue that personal allegiances influence said opinions, but the fact remains: An on-screen judgment of a fanwork based on facts is just that, and should be seen as nothing more (and nothing less, of course; that's why I wrote it).

GO TO BED! COURT AT 9AM!

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And, last reply: Yes, yes, yes and YES. If I don't like a theme in a story someone writes it does not mean that I dislike the author.
However, if the author then comes and starts being defensive and almost aggressive? Well, that's when I start reconsidering. But not one moment before.
Because it's still a fact: Different opinions make the world colourful. And, boy, would it be boring if everyone shared my opinion.

Keeping my liberal self under the blankets and the liberal head on the pillow now.
*squish*

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btw (in bed, omg, I am in bed): Thanks for offering to send tea the other day. I'd possibly have said yes if I didn't know you're on the same salary I am. :o)
But thank you so much for offering!

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My pleasure! (Damn that JOKE. 'tis not a salary.)

Sleep tight! ::tucks you in::

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I can totally get by 3! *g*

However, 4? Takes me to my happy place. I read 4 and I started going, "Yes! Exactly!" And I did that whole couldn't-quite-catch-my-breath-cause-my-chest-is-gonna-burst-with-glee thing. *g*

I like 4. *g*

Tho, I will caveat, that I like 4, but possibly not quite in the same way/for the same reasons. I love the thought of them sleeping together, because to me it says love in a way that sex doesn't, especially in fic. In fic they're all having sex at the drop of a hat, so it doesn't mean much/anything. But sleeping together? That's commitment, and trust, and -there's-more-to-us-being-together-than-just-sex, and other things I can't articulate at gone 11pm. But yeah, if a author does characters sleeping together right, it makes me absolutely gleeful.

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No, actually, that is pretty much my reasoning, only in better words. :o)

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Damn, I want nothing more that to go and read fic that satisfies 4 now, but I'm at work and trying to start a whole new work ethic. And I don't actually know any fic that satisfies 4. Any suggestions? If Amireal story (mentioned above) is the one with the hooded sweater, then I've read that one. Oooh, I could intersperse day reading snippets of that one! If I can find it.

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Oh, oh, Kat has a story like that. Check her fic on her LJ or her site, it's a short one, I'll get you the title when I'm off work. But maybe you can find it yourself, too. It's absolutely wonderful, gorgeous and tender and just, wow.

And, well, Fates does have quite a few sleeping scenes, but I realise that it's possibly not your cuppa, that story. So, hmmmmm. If I should self-pimp, I'd tell you that Icelus, Night Spirits and Full Circle all have sleeping. Mainly gen sleeping, though, other than fates.
(Uh. *cringes* Self-pimping...)

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I'll totally go and check out Kat then. I'm sure searching thru her fic will be such a hardship. *g*

Fates does have quite a few sleeping scenes

With recommendations like that, it's getting closer to the top of my reading list. Just gone to double check the into post. You know what it is that's putting me off, or at least stopping me jumping in as enthusiastically as I might? The McKay/Weir. Tragically, the rest I can totally get behind (although John/Rodney plus Atlantis totally depends on how you guys did it). Yeah, I suspect that's not what you were thinking.

Ok. You mind if I ask some questions about Three Fates, to try and convince me to read it? When you say AU, I'm assuming you mean that it went AU from Trinity; that it's still John, Rodney and Elizabeth we know? (Because, as much I love AU, I don't like AUs with different people ie Quantum Mirror-esque AUs. I love the ones where it's a different setting, but still our John, Rodney, Elizabeth etc, albeit, ones that took a different path. But when it's a different universe? I'm just not a fan of those - I want to read about our universe.)

Secondly, please tell me you didn't make either the three of them, or Atlantis, dark - for some reason, I seem to think that they do. I don't mind if they have to do dubious stuff to get home/survive/whatever, but the moment that their ethics/morals go dark, ie "we're doing this evil stuff because we can" I don't like so much. I'm not a huge fan of SG1 Absolute Power. (Oh, and John/Rodney/Atlantis and John/Atlantis is a million kinds of cool. Unless Atlantis is/goes dark.)

Erm, yeah, I'm not at the point when I start getting concerned about comment limits...

Mainly gen sleeping

Which is good, although doesn't quite push the same buttons.

*cringes* Self-pimping...)

Not at all! Self-pimping is a good thing! I generally forget the people on my flist write fic. Oh, if they post fic, I'll read it/tag for future reading. But I tend to forget that they wrote fic before I knew them. Especially if it was spoilery when I friended them and thus didn't read at the time.

Erm, yeah, so that was much longer than it was supposed to be. I suppose I had better work now...

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Oh, dear. Dear, dear.

Okay, so, at first: Technically, it is an AU, because this is no longer canon, but an Atlantis that it several thousand years younger than the one we know from canon. So, Fates is time-travel rather than quantum mirror. They're still the same people, very much so. (I have the same reasons for disliking AUs, which is mainly that in AUs, they're different people, however, it's the characters I'm interested in.)

Heeeeeeeeeh. The McKay/Weir is ... not quite what you'd think, I'd wager. It's stronger from her side, more unfulfilled than fulfilled and the focus is on John/Rodney. Elizabeth is really quite alone in this story, even when she is with both men.

As for dark ... hunh. It does turn pretty damn raven black. But not in the way you may think now. No one is deliberately evil. It's all a matter of being shaped by your environment, and by what loneliness and isolation can do to a person. You could call it a study in cabin fever, if you wanted.
As for Atlantis going dark ... That is a matter of perspective. We intended one thing, but some readers have perceived it differently. So, it really depends on how you read / want to read what happens.

Was this helpful at all?

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Technically, it is an AU, because this is no longer canon

Oh that's fine! In fact, if I'm tagging fic at delicious, fic like this doesn't actually get an 'AU' tag. *g*

The McKay/Weir is ... not quite what you'd think, I'd wager. It's stronger from her side, more unfulfilled than fulfilled

Ok, I can cope with that.

Elizabeth is really quite alone in this story, even when she is with both men.

Not quite sure what I think of this. I don't read enough Elizabeth fic to figure out how I like to read/see it. But there's something... harsh? about Elizabeth like this. *sigh* I suspect that'll be both not what I'm imaging and totally work in the story.

It does turn pretty damn raven black. [...] It's all a matter of being shaped by your environment, and by what loneliness and isolation can do to a person. You could call it a study in cabin fever

So long as the three of them stick together, I don't mind. (Fights etc don't count. When they descend into being purposefully cruel to each other, that's when I start to get antsy.

As for Atlantis going dark ... That is a matter of perspective. We intended one thing, but some readers have perceived it differently.

I'd ask what you intended, but I suspect that your answer will be the determining factor in whether I read or not, so I'll not ask, so that I can't be convinced not to. *g*

Was this helpful at all?

Yeah, I think it was. At the very least, the more I think/talk about Three Fates, the more it percolates through my mind and the closer I get to reading it. *g*

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but I suspect that your answer will be the determining factor in whether I read or not

Actually, no. But it might change your perception. I could tell you that we did not intend anything evil. We never wanted a HAL.
That help?

But, hey, darling, inall honesty: If you think something about it is not you cuppa, please don't read. It's not a problem, really. Promise.

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I could tell you that we did not intend anything evil. We never wanted a HAL. That help?

Oh totally! *loves you*

I want to read it (or want to want to read it? Not sure which is true.) because I know that you will have done omg awesome things, and that there will be ideas and concepts in there that I love and adore. And it's epic!?! And really? It'll be better that a great deal of the other stuff I've read. I wnat to love it, so I don't want to actually read it and discover that I hate it. (Oh god, my mind works in very strange ways...)

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Here. Have a small taste:

She wakes to smothering heat. The blankets around her are too tight and she feels sweat breaking out all over her body. She blinks her eyes open and stares at the ceiling, disoriented for a moment, her mind sluggish and unwilling to part from sleep. The last thing she remembers was slipping into bed beside Rodney. She doesn't remember ever feeling warm on Atlantis before. Not even in their timeline. But now, she's sweltering. Shifting to push the blankets away, she finds an obstacle and only now does her brain catch up.

Elizabeth looks to the side to see Rodney lying next to her. It's his arm that keeps the blanket in place, his body that exudes the heat that is burning her up. His breath that gusts along her neck. She tenses for a moment, then relaxes. His warmth is familiar, calming. But her other side, the one not pressed against Rodney, is feeling much warmer than normal, too, and she shifts a little to look at the source of the warmth.

The sight is a pleasant shock. John's dark head is nestled against her shoulder; his hand rests next to Rodney's forearm on her stomach. Sometime during the night the two of them shifted until they had her between them.

For a moment, she's afraid to breathe. Afraid that she has suffered too many sleepless nights and is hallucinating now. Elizabeth doesn't want this to be unreal, but then again, doesn't the mind always create what it wants most?

Here's the question that she has never dared answer before, though: Does she want this?

Their combined heat engulfs her completely, in a way that should be overwhelming but strangely isn't. Their presence soothes her nerves. Their scent is all around her, a faint bit of sweat and musk: clean, male.

Their hold on her is protective, possessive. If she shifts now, one of them will wake, will know, will move away. Then this precious moment of choice will be gone. If this is a fluke, a hallucination, or just something that will happen only once, never to be repeated, she wants it to last as long as possible. She feels too light and a little dizzy, but John and Rodney anchor her, keep her from floating in the maddening whirlwind of fear she now remembers sweeping her up while they were on Dagan. She refuses to remember what it felt like to think Rodney might be dead. If she ignores it, maybe it'll never have happened. They will never know, and she will never tell. They wouldn't hold her like this if they knew, and Elizabeth needs them now. She was never warm before. She is now, but now she doesn't know reality from fantasy from hallucination. She would never have asked for this, but she treasures it, and every thought of escaping the heat she found almost unbearable before has left her. She feels safe and at least partly warm for the first time since they got here.

"You think too loud." The vibration of the words travels from where John's lips touch her shoulder all the way to her fingertips. "You'll wake Rodney."

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*dies*

I think you broke me. I'm not supposed to cry at work! *sobs*

This? This was all kinds of perfect.

Elizabeth 'alone' (comment above somewhere) conjured up all sorts of negative images. But the aloneness that you convey in this scene? All kinds of perfect. I can totally believe an Elizabeth alone like this. And that she then gets to this scene is just.. how it should be.

What totally did me in? The last paragraph. I broke at that point. John's awake and that's when you know that Elizabeth is about to realise, if she doesn't already, that she doesn't have to convince the guys, that the guys are totally on board with it (and this is where I start inferring), and I the reader can believe/imagine that they were just waiting for her to get to the point where should accept this, that the two guys knew her so so well as to be able to wait for her and know when she was ready, and they're looking after her, and *flails* I can imagine/infer so much more but my brain won't form the words and articulate the feelings and *flails*

This is a dimension of what I was talking about with the sleeping thing!! *flails*

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*hands you a hankie*

If this scene already breaks you, then, uhm ... brace yourself. And get a whole family package of tissues. No, seriously. I think you might just hate us before you're done reading. Meep.

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