Fic-issues

[eretria]

eta: Unlocked for discussion.

Seriously, what is it with the load of non-con fic lately?

Why do authors write about rape in order to have hurt/comfort? What is so appealing about it? I bet that if any of them ever had actually experienced rape, they wouldn't even consider writing it for fun.
This is ... it's a violation. Why would you want to do that to a character you care about?

Worst of all are the fics in which a character is raped and then the other character tries to make it better with sex of all things, and then, at the end of the fic, everything is dandy and happy again and the character experiencing the non-con doesn't suffer ANY aftereffects.

Well, sorry, but life doesn't work that way. Trauma. That ring a bell?

It makes me especially mad to see people salivating over it in reviews (To quote: I love "(character A) being raped" stories -- The things we writers put you through in the name of h/c fic. *grins over his shoulder* LOVED this. Oh wow. So much pain! More! More! Gods, I can't wait to see whatcha do with this. *nod nod* ), or even demanding hard non-con (I'm not talking dodgy-con here, even though I have issues there as well) in challenges. What the fuck is WRONG with those people?

This isn't a joking matter. Rape is nothing to drool about or anticipate.

I feel disgusted with this part of fandom. Same thing goes with the torture-device far too many stories use - and this has happened in all fandoms I've been in now. Character A being tortured mercilessly, only to have Character B comforting Character A and consequently making him/her forget all about the torture / rape and everything is happy and dandy again at the end and they profess undying love to eachother and have the best sex ever. No consequences. Because the characters had sex, everything is all right again.

I'm joking, you think? Well, seen in a prompt lately: "Non-con, rape or torture are okay as long as there is some hope and some kind of happy ending lurking somewhere
Do those writers/prompters really think everything will be pretty and happy again after your character has gone through something like that? To me, it just constitutes a limited horizon, a scary amount of loss of reality and an even more frightening amount of small-mindedness.
(Adding here that I don't object to the subject being dealt with in an adult, respectful way. But examples as the ones above are doing anything but.)

I may be the narrow-minded one here, however, so if anyone could explain to me where the appeal of non-con stories lies, I'd be glad to broaden my horizon. I realise that this is a touchy subject and this is only my opinion, by no means am I laying claim to being right. I doubt I'll ever understand, but I'd like to hear explanations.

Comments

[sleepwalker41.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen any of what you're describing, but it sounds like a child-like (/childish??) way of confronting what people fear MIGHT happen to them. Like riding rollercoasters or going through spooky 'haunted' houses, only with words. And inflicting it on others.

[nimoloth.livejournal.com]

No, some people are just sick, and even more so the people who enjoy reading it so much. I would not knowingly read anything that had rape in it, nor watch it on TV or film - it traumatises me just to see/read such things.

[egirl.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear. Well said.



Emma.

[angelhunter.livejournal.com]

If that bugs you I advise you to never ever set a foot into the manga/anime fandom. NEVER! That thing is totally rampant over there. I do not get hurt/comfort fics where the hurt is rape or torture, and a thinly disguised means to get some sexual healing done later. Sorry, but a big, huge NO! to that. You know me, I am not sqeamish. This? Makes me mad. Really, really mad. I hate the "sex with the right person heals everything, even rape" cliche; I abhorr fics in which the victims falls in love with the rapist and they live happily ever after, because the rapist raped the victim out of "true love." Yes, that sort of thing gets written and drooled over.
Makes me sick.

And, contrary to popular believe it is not only teenagers who write that sort of thing. *grrrr* Makes you wonder what screwed image of love some people carry around with them.

[tinny]

I like non-con. I totally do.

I like to see my characters in tough situations, not the happy part afterwards. In fact, you're right: the "sexual healing" thing is the worst that can happen in fic, and I am just as against it as you are. I don't need my fics to end happily, I'd rather they end unhappy.

But I like to see the characters broken: because it brings out things in them that you don't usually see. It lets you see behind their facade. That is *very* fascinating.

What I actually think this is about - for me personally - is that I see it as a kind of confrontational therapy for myself - because I *hate* any kind of violence and I am very much looking for harmony in my personal life. So this kind of horror-situation is something I can only experience in fiction. And I only *want* to experience it in fiction. Fiction is *exactly* the place for it. It gives me insight into the human condition (if it's written well, with introspection etc). I want to *learn* something from everything I read.

I have to add that it doesn't have to be rape, in particular. Any kind of horrible or life-threatening situation is fine with me. But rape has this particular threat that it's the worst thing that could happen to me personally, that it is just closer to real life than... say, alien abduction, whatever.

Anyway, I'd rather read rape well written than standard fluff any day. I'm noticing an increase in dark fic in SGA at the moment, too - and I've been asking for it for the last few months already, so I am absolutely happy that it is finally happening now.

(Where's my angst whore icon? Oh right, I gave it to Rez. ;))

[fatema.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. People shouldn't do rape stories if they really don't know how to do it realistically. Even then, you just shouldn't. It's so... it never works and it's so not a joking matter. This is just a sign of lack of creativity and going for the first thing that occurs to them as "emotional." Of course, they don't even know what kind of emotions are involved with rape.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Thank you. While I can never understand and don't want to understand for reasons I don't feel comfortable discussing anywhere, not just here, I can respect your reasoning.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Makes you wonder what screwed image of love some people carry around with them.

Word.
I feel too nauseated to give a more eloquent reply.

[amezri.livejournal.com]

I have a friend on my flist who has always shared the same opinion as you, especially, "Worst of all are the fics in which a character is raped and then the other character tries to make it better with sex of all things" and I told her you'd written a post saying so.

She wanted me to pass this along: "Will you tell her that cj wants to have her babies?"

So yeah. There are many who feel the same way.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

I could unlock this if you think it might make sense. Because I really am interested what other people think.

[tinny]

While I can never understand and don't want to understand

And that's absolutely fine. Thanks for not totally dismissing me.

We all come here with different expectations (not to say kinks), and we get along anyway. Well, I hope we do. :)

(also, what I forgot and would like to clarify is that I don't like sensationalism and spectator attitude the least bit, and I don't think my reasons for reading angst go in that direction at all.)

[amezri.livejournal.com]

Your post makes a lot of sense and it would be quite a discussion...

If you're comfortable unlocking it. :)

[tinny]

Just in case you were wondering: I wouldn't mind you unlocking it. :)

[gelliaclodiana]

You know, dubious consent is one of my guilty pleasures, although I'm not much of a fan of the hurt/comfort rape-fic myself -- I'm more interested in psychological dominance than physical dominance. Why do I find this kind of thing hot? No idea. Other people find stuff hot that I don't.

I guess I have a couple comments. One is that a lot of people do seem to have rape fantasies, which they view as separate from the issue of rape in real life -- that is, they don't think that the fact that they're playing with these fantasies makes rape less wrong or horrible in the real world. You may disagree. Also, I don't think realism is the point of these stories -- there is a certain amount of good writing in fanfic that deals seriously with the issue of rape and it's aftermath, but I think that needs to be seen as a separate genre from these fantasy rape-fics. The other thing is -- you know, a lot of h/c fic is crap, and a lot of rape fic is crap, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with the genre. A lot of fic is crap. People love stories that make me want to claw my eyes out, sometimes.

I guess what I think is that fanfic is (for a lot of people) about playing with their fantasies. Sometimes those fantasies involve everyone living happily ever after and having lots of babies. Sometimes they involve some nasty rapefic. These things aren't to everyone's tastes, and it may be that some of these fantasies should probably have remained private.

I don't know if this answers your questions.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Oh, you have a Daine icon! *love*

And fair enough to try avoiding it; it's impossible to do so out there, of course, in normal literature, film, TV -- and we are only talking about the more high-minded, artistic stuff. I remember watching Against the Wall in a small cinema in Cologne and adoring that movie, but yes, the rape scene was traumatising.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Interesting response, and this part

I *hate* any kind of violence and I am very much looking for harmony in my personal life

just rings very true to me, for me.

Thank you for sharing.

[quiller77.livejournal.com]

Wow. Powerful rant -- and much needed by the sound of it.

At the risk of getting slammed, I'll put forward the theory that increasing numbers of non-con stories relates to porn and its growing acceptability in society. But the fact is: porn is addictive. Consensual sex in fandoms is getting boring, so now they're throwing violence into the mix to get the titillation they used to get with straight-forward sex. It's a downward spiral that reminds me of the games in the Roman colliseum.

Yup. Probably said too much. I'll crawl back under my rock now.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

So people should only do rape stories when they know how to do it realistically?

Don't mean to come across as flippant or snippy, I'm just honestly curious. Rape is no laughing matter, after all -- although I don't think its treatment in sub-genre fiction is as dangerous as the general treatment of women on TV: the fanfic treatment just seems ludicrous.

[tinny]

Very good point, though!

People tend to go towards extremes (and that is ridiculously oversimplified and probably needs a discussion all on its own), and the more previously "fringe" behaviour moves into the norm, the more the edges will move even further out.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Now that is interesting.
I don't mind mild porn. But there certainly has been an incredible load of it recently, and you're right ... after a while a straight diet of "regular" porn may require the tastes to crave something different.
I still don't understand why it would / can lead to rape being the plot-device of the day.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

It's done.

[murron.livejournal.com]

No, this is a very good point. And a disturbing one, at that. What does such a development tell us - about readers who consume rape fic and authors who write it?

The comment eretria quoted shocked me deeply. Do people like that actually listen to what they're saying?

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Do people like that actually listen to what they're saying?

I don't think they do, or they don't realise what they're saying. Just one hour in the mind of a rape-victim is what I'd wish them if I didn't think it would be cruel. See, rape is something no-one deserves to know about. It's bad enough that it happens daily, hundreds and thousands of times. But turning rape into a spectator sport, with the author sitting there, rubbing her hands and going: "How can I torture my character even more?" (with regards to examples like the ones quoted above) is what is revolting to me.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

You know, dubious consent is one of my guilty pleasures

I cannot tell you how glad I am not to be the first one to pipe up like this -- and with so many other points I wanted to make, too, notably the distinction between a fictional attempt to portray rape, its causes, and its ramifications, and the quick-and-dirty* fantasies jotted down and posted on the net.

* Which don't have to be quick or short, and can take place in a sterile environment, but you know what I mean.

(This is a reply to you, vaznetti, and you, eretria.)

As I already implied in another comment above, fictional rape isn't -- or shouldn't -- be nice and convenient, but it definitely has its place in storytelling, especially the more realistic kind; if you endeavour to look at issues in society -- violence, dependency, poverty, inequality, fundamentalist religion, chauvinist structures...and, usually, women, although in the case of prisons, it's a man's world, too -- it's impossible not to take it into consideration.

But yeah, not the kind you are so enraged about, I know. You mean rape of characters as a mere plot device, a convenient stock element to amp up the angst, break down the defences of an otherwise quite resilient character, and use this opening for whatever the author has in mind -- occasionally just glimpses at the terrible suffering, but usually some variation on the old hurt/comfort theme.

And I must echo vaznetti again re: these fantasy rape-fics. The other thing is -- you know, a lot of h/c fic is crap, and a lot of rape fic is crap, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with the genre. A lot of fic is crap. People love stories that make me want to claw my eyes out, sometimes

Funny (or not) enough, it's precisely the fluffy-ending stories -- and their cavalier treatment of one of the most traumatising experiences a human can undergo -- that actively annoy me; most fiction I don't like I just click-shut without so much as an eye-roll, but rape-fic that ends with puppies and kittens and cuddles has the potential to creep me out, if not so much its existence --

obviously, this is the net, where you can find like-minded people even if you like to have sex with goats on fire (best example ever, I don't know which old-school BNF gave it) --

but its popularity. If there is a surge in such rape-fic in any given fandom, I'd definitely start wondering. *Is* it really this bad, though? I haven't encountered more than one or two in SGA fandom so far, although I saw the non-con marker in eliade's SGA recs the other night -- but it's Anna S., whose kinks are legion, and a weird legion, at that.

Ah, that's another thing that bugs me, actually -- the "non-con" label, such a euphemism. Of course, it makes psychological sense -- it's not really rape, so if it excites me, that's cool, it's just a li'l slice of the big cake of internet porn!

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

What I don't mind as much, though, is a more conscious treatment of it; authors who are aware of their own and their readers' proclivities and label it all accordingly, with warnings and in all seriousness, for once -- this is one of the few instances where I'm actually in favour of locked posts and restricted access.

vaznetti makes another good point -- These things aren't to everyone's tastes, and it may be that some of these fantasies should probably have remained private -- and quiller below has another sensible reminder: That sex and violence and kinks can, just like anything else that thrills or pleases us, lead to addiction, and that it would be better for all the ones thus inclined to exercise caution. Writing or reading them because one finds them tremendously exciting just doesn't seem like the healthy thing to do; if this wasn't so much about pure fantasies, I might even consider talking about morals. (I have them! I just...misplace them!)

Which brings me to my own proclivities -- I dislike true pain and physical suffering immensely, even in fiction; minor scrapes and bruises and such are fine, and in ye olde vampire fandoms, I'll blithely accept the whole blood issue without dwelling on it, but no matter the sort of fiction, any dominance/submission/power-play aspect is appealing to me, as is the slow dance of a well-written, drawn out seduction...so what eretria labels dodgy-con (never heard of that! Define!) sounds quite intriguing. Actual rape simply makes me wince and cringe, whether it's two beloved characters or just one and a villain...but as long as you circumvent all physical pain and damage (if not the psychological side), you can definitely give me stories featuring mind-altering drugs or alcohol, love spells, magic thralls, alien influence etc. pp. --

vaznetti, you remember The Sound of Wind Chimes? Or that one with Amnesia!Mulder and Scully on the island? Err. I couldn't, wouldn't want to re-read it, but back in the X-Phile days, these were among the first pieces of fanfic I read and enjoyed. Control, lack thereof, over yourself, over another person...yes, well, sign me up.

One of the most memorable pieces I've read in SGA fiction was a similar case -- some Aliens Made Them Do It! plot, without physical discomfort, but the author then wrote a piece almost entirely about the aftermath, and the mental scars that encounter had left; this obviously appeals to my higher brain functions...

[murron.livejournal.com]

What disgusts me (other than the points you already mentioned) is the notion of writing rape to get feedback. To be praised, absurd as that might sound.

Some might say words don't matter. A story is just fiction. Well, anyone who thinks that either fools himself or has no brain to speak of. Writers do have a responsibility. In my opinion, people who write thoughtlessly, without care, for popularity only - they're not writers. They're hacks. And that's still a nice word for what they are.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Ah, see, and this is what I meant and maybe what didn't come across: What angers me is not the genre so much as the fact that most writers don't take the subject serious and just use it as a device to get the character hurt severely to get them to have sex with the next character ASAP.
(as for not seeing examples in SGA, I tell you to go to Wraithbait and do a quick search there. You'd be surprised.)
It just seems like an insult to both the characters and rape-victims. While authors who respect the happenings can make it work - and yes, I remember the story you're talking about, and it does exactly that - without being spectators by simply respecting the issue.
Rape for kicks is what makes me want to run screaming. And the "it's only fantasy" approach doesn't work for me, because if the thought is there in fantasy, it means that it's right there in those people's mind.
I realise that this is a touchy subject and this is only my opinion, by no means am I laying claim to being right and on the highest moral horse. It just ... No. Better stop right here.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

What angers me is not the genre so much as the fact that most writers don't take the subject serious and just use it as a device to get the character hurt severely to get them to have sex with the next character ASAP.

I gathered as much; just went off on my little tangent there.

I tell you to go to Wraithbait and do a quick search there. You'd be surprised.

I usually use LJ only and check out all sorts of recommendation lists and sites; they, with the exception noted above, don't seem to be into that sort of thing.

It just seems like an insult to both the characters and rape-victims. While authors who respect the happenings can make it work - and yes, I remember the story you're talking about, and it does exactly that - without being spectators by simply respecting the issue.

Yes, I understand.

Rape for kicks is what makes me want to run screaming.

Got it.

Lines are blurry here, of course, and seems safest to just step back and say Thanks, But No Thanks...but it's a complex issue, singular, mainly because it touches upon people's issues, plural. At least one writer I know writes rape-fic because it's of therapeutic value to her. Can't really discuss that, but it made me wonder about reality and fantasy and psychological developments, even if it doesn't change the fact that others read it for kicks.

And the "it's only fantasy" approach doesn't work for me, because if the thought is there in fantasy, it means that it's right there in those people's mind.

Not really, though -- yes, it's there, but it's hardly a conscious thought. Not to defend schmoopy rape-ficcers, of all people, but I -- sorry about generalisations, ill-fitting comparisons, and simplifications -- don't run around thinking "How can I dominate this or that person today? How could he or she control me? My, wouldn't that be hot?" Some of the kinks we carry around with us -- most of them, in fact -- do not colour our everyday thoughts and actions. I remember reading that "rape fantasies" is a dangerously misleading term -- many women have them with regards to themselves, but that does most emphatically not mean they actually want to be raped, or want any other woman to be raped (or any other man, I'm sure); instead, freedom from facing one's own lust and guilt or any sort of personal responsibility play the main role. Some man sharply attack women for having these, but it makes no sense to me to blame them for desires from the very depths of their minds.

It might make more sense to question the way they *deal* with such fantasies, of course, but as long as other human beings aren't involved, it just seems too closely connected to emotional/sexual/subconscious parts of yourself that aren't fully under your control (I am totally using up my quota of that word today).

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Lines are blurry here, of course, and seems safest to just step back and say Thanks, But No Thanks...

Just in case this came across wrong: I do steer clear of those stories. I've only been reading the summary on the most recent page of Wraithbait and then clicked on the reviews (yes, because I was wondering if anyone else objected to this kind of plot-device) and was instantly repelled by the reviews.
Just in case this whole arguing above came across as: Well, why does she read it when it angers her so.

At least one writer I know writes rape-fic because it's of therapeutic value to her.

And this, as contradictory as it seems, is what I can understand and relate to.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Writers do have a responsibility. In my opinion, people who write thoughtlessly, without care, for popularity only - they're not writers.

Thank you.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Just in case this came across wrong: I do steer clear of those stories.

No, didn't come across wrong at all; I didn't even have you in mind when I wrote the line you quote -- I was talking about actual readers and writers of rape-fic, which you clearly aren't.

Just in case this whole arguing above came across as: Well, why does she read it when it angers her so.

I know you better than that, sweetie, and it really didn't cross my mind until you brought it up here.

And this, as contradictory as it seems, is what I can understand and relate to.

Not contradictory at all! You belong to the school of writers who demand value and/or substance in fiction, and if the one who creates a rape-fic derives a measure of...a cure, some relief, a coping mechanism from it, that'll be fine.

[fatema.livejournal.com]

Well, I personally feel that rape isn't a light matter and then to do it as an excuse for angst, then make it all better by MORE sex, and everything happens to be all happy and stuff doesn't seem right. Frankly, it's not realistic. And people have the right to write it that way, if that's what they want to do (individual rights and all of that). for me, it's just truly displeasing to see something like that. But like I said, this is a personal preference.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

then to do it as an excuse for angst, then make it all better by MORE sex, and everything happens to be all happy and stuff

This could be the standard summary of the sort of fiction eretria attacks, I think.

As for the right of people to write anything -- absolutely, but I eye the "I got a right to!" argument with caution: the idea that not everything we can do is necessarily something we should do is a valid one.

Not that I am such a saint. Not everything I actually do is something I should do, obviously.

Feel free to check out my comments to vaznetti, but be warned about the TMI content. I put the "farTOOmuch" in T-M-I.

[gelliaclodiana]

You mean rape of characters as a mere plot device, a convenient stock element to amp up the angst, break down the defences of an otherwise quite resilient character, and use this opening for whatever the author has in mind

I did this, in one of my early stories -- and every now and then I look back and wonder if there was any ontehr way of getting where I needed to go. There probably was, but this was the most obvious route, because I needed to create a certain emotional effect in one character while either postponing or ruling out altogether a physical relationship. The rape occurred off-screen, so to speak -- we saw the build-up and the aftermath, because I didn't want to write the scene itself.

I suspect that this isn't what Eretria meant -- it wasn't meant to be titillating, and it certainly wasn't meant to lead into a physical relationship (quite the opposite!) -- but it was certainly "plot device."

[cassiejamie.livejournal.com]

I have this to say, as I said earlier through amezri - you rock.

I have for a long time now had the same view. Rape is not a vessel through which another character can come along and be like, "Hi. Let's have sex to heal you now." It's just not right. The issue itself is one that has to be handled well or not written at all because if it's not respected then it's an insult to those who've been the victim of that horrendous crime.

You've definitely said what I've been yearning to for a while. I myself wrote a non-graphic non-con that dealt with the aftermath. There was no sex at all and that I felt was all that was needed; I wrote it to prove that one does not need to write sex into a story to have a good plot. It just blows my mind that people find those stories interesting when they're aware of the fact that the character will be graphically raped.

I may be the narrow-minded one here, however, so if anyone could explain to me where the appeal of non-con stories lies, I'd be glad to broaden my horizon.
You're not the only one and as soon as I finish this I will read the comments, because I don't find the appeal in h/c non-con fics either. I can see aftermath fics, where one character comforts another and feels safe with them, but not where sex is involved. And now that I sound like a broken record player, I will begin reading comments. :)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

You know, I had been a bit wary when I posted this to step on people's toes. But then I thought - fuck that. In that case, I don't mind stepping on toes.
I'm glad to know I'm not alone in this.
I can see aftermath fics, where one character comforts another and feels safe with them, but not where sex is involved.

Yes. Exactly. Comfort, yes. More? Doubtful if not completely unlikely. There is a fantastic song by a German singer-songwriter (Herbert Groenemeyer), called "Sie" (She), about a rape-victim. The main lyric line is: "She has tried to repair the dream, to free herself from it. She has waited long, desperately, but the years showed no mercy. This isn't healed by time." I must see if I can find it somehwre and maybe upload it at some point, with translated lyrics - because that song really says all there is to say.
No matter if female or male - this cannot be healed. By nothing.

[ttrin.livejournal.com]

Non-con is another word for A/U ('alternate universe'), right?
I certainly cannot explain the appeal of rape fics, bit I can think of some reasons why people write them.

Let me explain: I have the strong opinion that writing something down, no matter how obscure and vague the idea/emotion is, you give 'substance' to it. It's not a subconscious worry or threat anymore but solid, in black on white, graspable and therefore a lot easier to confront and deal with. Based on that assumption:

As mentioned already, it could be as a therapeutic measure - either if the author or someone close to them had to fo throught that experience, or to fend off your 'ghosts', your primal subconscious fears.
I assume in a number of those fics it's not about rape and its consequences per se, but about complete and utter loss on control, and the fear of that happening. A violation, physically or mentally, of the one and only thing that truly belongs to someone: his/her free will. And the authors use rape, the epitome of that loss, as a kind of 'symbol' to express exactly that.
Sure, there certainly are some people who like to shock or disgust in any way possible just to get reviews (and a 20 tions-weight dropped on them, pleased), but I think they're outnumbered by those with other reasons.
(Did you know the majority of authors of those kind of fics and stories are female? 0_o)

As for the 'healing with sex issue'. Maybe they use it as a kind of derivation from "when you fall off/down from a horse, get right up there again, else you likely won't ever again". Like, showing the victims that yes, it can be different, there are quite nice sides of sex.


So much for theories, my imagination stretches only that far.
I've only had one involuntary experience in that kind of fics in the anime/manga area, and I back-pedalled at lighting speed. I don't (want to) read rape fics, so all of the stuff above is just theorizing.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

well. Rapefic is an extremely large section of the romance genre--for convenince, I'm including all flavors of questionable consent here. And fanfic does have a strong tradition of the classic romance in it. It's a legitimate part of the literary tradition, or the concept of bodice rippers in romance would not even exist.

I'm not sure how else to put this, so if I sound really sharp, this is me trying to find the right words, not doing any sort of attack.

I feel disgusted with this part of fandom. Same thing goes with the torture-device far too many stories use - and this has happened in all fandoms I've been in now. Character A being tortured mercilessly, only to have Character B comforting Character A and consequently making him/her forget all about the torture / rape and everything is happy and dandy again at the end and they profess undying love to eachother.
I'm joking, you think? Well, seen in a prompt lately: "Non-con, rape or torture are okay as long as there is some hope and some kind of happy ending lurking somewhere
Do those writers/prompters really think everything will be pretty and happy again after your character has gone through something like that? To me, it just constitutes a limited horizon, a scary amount of loss of reality and an even more frightening amount of small-mindedness.

I think you're going really, really far down the slope to equate what someone writes/uses in fantasy/etc, with real world behavior, morals, or how they view reality. There is a difference, and it's a pretty thick and steep line, between what you yourself do in real life, or how you feel about real life events, and how you write/how you like to read about your characters. And I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea that our morality is called into question on the strength of our kinks, what we like to write, or what we like to read.

We always complain that television doesn't show us realistic reactions of charcters, or makes them into cardboard cutouts, but the very nature of the medium requires it be simple, and textual fiction is no different. We get, at most, a single focused moment, but we can't cover *everything*. Most people know that rape, like murder, torture,, etc, does not have a happy or heart warming ending.

I want to clarify before we go further--is your objection to badly written rape (or unrealistic rape), or rape written at all?

[eretria.livejournal.com]

I want to clarify before we go further--is your objection to badly written rape (or unrealistic rape), or rape written at all?

My objection was solely to the stories that use rape as a means to have it all be flowery and happy and lead to sex in the end, without consequences.
As I said to mona above:
What angers me is not the genre so much as the fact that many writers don't take the subject serious and just use it as a device to get the character hurt severely to get them to have sex with the next character ASAP.
If the story has therapeutic value to the writer, or is supposed to have one for the reader, then that, as contradictory as it seems, is what I can understand and relate to.
What I object to is writing rape for cheap thrills. Because - and if this is an unpopular opinion, then so be it, I'm standing by this - there is nothing remotely sexy about rape. Nothing whatsoever.