Down and up

[eretria]

So, I'm on the verge of a stomach flu, am thus missing one of my last lectures as a post-grad student, have cold feet and am a bit cranky since the Monster is in its final throes and I already feel the withdrawal starting - after all, Auburn and I have been on this for over four months now without a break, seven days a week.

So. When in doubt, rant.

Things I'd be incredibly glad if I never would find them in a story again:

- Sudden proposals. Drawn-out marriage fics in which Sheppard and McKay live happily ever after in a house with a white picket fence. (And, actually, that goes for almost all marriage fics, het and slash, except for Wash/Zoe. Theirs is the only TV marriage that is both interesting and layered. For all the others ... Just, no. Which is odd, because I love marriages in real life. Just, not in fic. For me, it doesn't work in 99.1 % of all cases. But feel free to prove me wrong on the remaining 0.9 %)

- "I love you", completely out of the blue. In fact, almost all "I love you's" in fic make me cringe, except for the very, very few authors who have a good handle on it and use it only once, and as a result of a long, long time of being together. All the other writers who spring it on you in an almost inflationary way? I wonder if "show, don't tell" means anything to them.

- "Siege" spelled as "Seige" (Dictionary. Dictionary! This is where I get really snappy and say that even as a non-native speaker, I can reach for a dictionary, so, as a native speaker, the author should do the same)

- "Teyla" spelled as "Taylya" (A little research, hm? It's not that hard)

- Kavanagh spelled as "Kavenaugh", and portrayed as an incompetent, slime-dripping, moronic arse. One story in which Kavanagh is treated more like Snape, maybe? Is that too much to ask?

- "Zelenka" spelled as "Zalenka"

- Carson using Scot-speak a lá Diana Gabaldon. It's ridiculous. We all know he has a Scottish accent, so, give it a rest, already. It hurts the eyes, precious.

- Rape treated without respect and written for cheap thrills and being cured with sex on the very next day. (Yes, I have ranted on this before)

- Crude terminology in sex-scenes. I remember one thing in particular which was so awful that it burned into my brain like acid: "(character a) came like a gangbuster all over the place". Seriously. Seriously.

- Sex out of the blue. The kind of: One day they looked at each other and suddenly realised that they were in love for ever and ever and couldn't keep their hands off each other. Uhm. What happened to slow build-up? To foreplay?

- Summaries starting with: "I have no clue and it's not very good, just read." Uhm. With a summary like that, why should I even start?

- Spoiler spelled as "Spolier", repeatedly.

- Sheppard behaving like a teenager with a crush and by that, I don't mean cute (because, really, cute John is just nothing anyone would ever want to pass on by), but mooning, doodling hearts and forgetting his duties (I realise that this happens mostly in het fic, but the occasional slash fic sadly has had it, too)

- Weir acting like the damsel in distress, breaking down crying repeatedly, waiting for the strong arms of John Sheppard/Ronon Dex/Rodney McKay to pull her up again. Seriously.

- Mary Sues that even have the same first name as the author.

- Stories that have very obviously not even been spell-checked. Few things hurt the eyes more than that. (And, yes, I realise that when there are typos in this post now, I will have to blush and hide for a long, long, long while. And I won't even play the non-native-speaker card. I'll just hide.)


To even that out a bit, a list of things I would love to see more of:

- Plot. Plot, plot and more plot. And, uhm, plot.

- Kisses. One well-described kiss can be so much hotter than all the sex you can come up with, if only it's done right.

- Touch. Yes, yes, personal kink, but there is so much skin. So much to touch, both in a shippy and a non-shippy way. Warmth, texture, caring, concern, reassurance - loving, detailed descriptions can say so much more than words. Besides, I'm still convinced that at least half of the higher-ranking people on Atlantis are severely touch-deprived.

- Kavanagh having more than one layer. He's like ... an onion! Show the layers!

- A story in which McKay and Sheppard do care for each other, but it's not eternal love with the best sex ever. In which they realise that sex between them just doesn't work, but friendship does.

- Speaking of McKay and Sheppard ... how about a story in which the sex is really, really bad? It's hardly believable that it's always the best sex they have ever had. Also, how come they're almost always pros? Why not show the little mishaps? It can't be perfect all the time. Especially not on the first time.

- More McKay/Carter and McKay/Cadman. Yes, with a bit of Sheppard in the mix, too, if the writer is so inclined.

- ONE Sheppard/Weir story that treats them as adults, not as silly teenagers. One story that actually makes me believe in the pairing. I have yet to be convinced.


Do you have something to add? Recs? I'd love your input.

eta: Several typos fixed. I'll be under that rock over there, hiding in shame.

Comments

[munchkinofdoom.livejournal.com]

Don't s'pose I can rec the monster? :)
The end of part 1 still has my heart and throat throttled, what with you two having written one of the few scenes in fandom that made me go 'poor Liz' without retching.

But for a rec, have you seen All of Eden (http://www.livejournal.com/community/mckay_sheppard/423414.html) by Nixa Jane? The summary doesn't do it justice. I glanced at it on mckay_sheppard and only went back and read it after ltlj recced it.
I then got into one of my interminable meta discussions with the writer, and have found someone new to stalk :)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Don't s'pose I can rec the monster? :)

You can when we have it done. :o)

And thenk you for the rec, I shall give it a read.

and have found someone new to stalk :)

*highly dramatic sigh* I feel so replaced now.

[munchkinofdoom.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I forgot!!!

Found this on svmadelyn's lj. It is terrifying, especially when you consider that this is a Smallville and SGA sort-of-cracked-not!Secret Santa. People are going to have to write these stories.

svmadelyn's post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/svmadelyn/319665.html)

The Poll (http://www.livejournal.com/poll/?id=644932&qid=1&mode=ans)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Oh, Christ. That makes the brain ache. Aiiii.

[alyse]

::snerk:: You sound like me, especially about the fandom needing more McKay/Carter and Kavanagh.

Re: Sheppard/Weir, I don't generally read that pairing (I'm more of a McKay/Sheppard/Weir or Weir/Zelenka girl), but I did rec one on jamficrecs ages ago: Mornings After by Little Red. The only annoying thing about it is Elizabeth constantly being referred to as 'Liz' in the story, which I can't personally see.

I'm sure we've featured Sheppard/Weir stories on Wraithbait. I can dig them out if you'd like.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

McKay/Carter is far too rare in the fandom. Which is sad, because they have a huge amount of chemistry. I wouldn't be too happy if they went that way on the show, not for long, that is, but in fiction? All the way.
And Kavanagh ... I had been hoping for some stories featuring him after Critical Mass, but apparently, 90 % of the fandom prefer to see him as a one-dimensional character. Which is too sad.

Liz, hm? That is one thing that bugs me to no end, and the one thing I have made sure to never write when referring to Elizabeth. Somehow, she strikes me as a person to not allow that kind of nickname.
But I'm giving the story a try, thank you.

As for other Sheppard/Weir ... I don't really read the pairing for reasons that most authors just can't sell me on the pairing. I just get tired of all slash, all the time every once in a while.
So, if you have one that stands out and treats them as adults, I'm all ears.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

I'm more of a McKay/Sheppard/Weir or Weir/Zelenka girl

Just to say how very, very much I second that statement. I haven't gotten out of the Weir/Sheppard/McKay headspace for almost five months now. Every. Single. Day. So that made your story even more of a treat. (Can I just gush and flail a bit about that story again? Because I feel like I haven't done enough of that yet.)

[tinny]

- Mary Sues that even have the same first name as the author.

*LOL*

how about a story in which the sex is really, really bad? Why not show the little mishaps?

Yesyesyes! I am such a sucker for bad-sex stories. Or clumsy-sex stories where people end up laughing with each other, totally killing the mood, instead of having sex. So much too little of that!

- More McKay/Carter and McKay/Cadman. Yes, with a bit of Sheppard in the mix, too.

With those two pairings? I can totally go without Sheppard. I love both Carter and Cadman. And I agree, they shouldn't really go that way in canon (I really hope they keep it watchable).

jennyo has written three McKay/Cadman stories that she hasn't promoted anywhere, I think. Let me see if I can find her site again. I'm not sure you'll like them, since her style is usually pretty rough and the characters are never nice to each other. Their motivation very seldom is love. I liked this one, though:

http://jennyo.imjustsayin.net/walkingonsunshine.html

It's the only fic I know that uses the sentence "Oh my god, are you having an orgasm?" to positive effect. :))))

Anyway, I think I have the complete set of McKay/Cadman and McKay/Carter fic on my harddrive. I don't think there are more than ten each. :((( Also, there's a community mckay_cadman, but it's... small.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Eeeee! Thank you! I had read this story ages ago, and had forgotten to bookmark it and then couldn't find it again for the life of me. Thank you!!!

Hm. Say, what does a woman have to do to get those folders transferred to my harddrive? (Babyphotos? Yes? I take terrific baby-pictures. Uhm. Wow. Way to be modest.)

[lysora]

I don't think there are more than ten each. :(((

Oddly enough, I actually spent some time a couple days ago hunting all the semi-decent McKay/Carter fic I could find - http://del.icio.us/lysora/sam/mckay. Feel free to share the link and if there are any other stories that I've missed, let me know because I would so love to read them :)

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Check yer mail, kiddo. *bg*

- Kavanagh having more than one layer. He's like ... an onion! Show the layers!

*snorfle*

I adore that - but I *am* the person who made his balls fall off, so...

McKay/Cadman. Yes, with a bit of Sheppard in the mix, too.

I second that!! But then, I do have a thing for Cadman. Why don't people write more of her? If I didn't have my plate so full, what with writing the second part of your b-day fic as soon as spy_santa and that other Secret Santa thing are done, I'd tackle her.

I, too, dislike pretty much all the things you list up there -- and, yet again, I'M SO WITH YOU RE: THAT VERY LAST ITEM.

Seriously.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Darling!
How's court-life treating you?

but I *am* the person who made his balls fall off, so...

*snerk* You'd better make amend, then, hm?

Why don't people write more of her?

Is this the point where I whistle innocently and mention something about a story that Kat and I are planning? Obviously, the monster has spoiled me and I'm now constitutionally unable to write on my own again. But, er, yeah. If all goes well, there's a Cadman story coming up.

Seriously.

It really makes me mad sometimes - why is there so little good het out there? I do swing both ways, taste-wise (and would you have believed you'd ever hear me say that, half a year ago?), and every once in a while, I'd love to see good het. To have a balanced fic-diet, so to speak.

[lunasky.livejournal.com]

And, actually, that goes for all marriage fics, het and slash, except for Wash/Zoe. Theirs is the only TV marriage that is both interesting and layered. For all the others ... Just, no.

Whoops! Sorry. *hides* :)

I've read a few Sheppard/Weir fics that were pretty decent, but there's nothing like the epics you see around for Sheppard/McKay. Because I love the slow build too. Sadly, everytime I see 'Liz' I have to run away, which also limits the number of fics out there.

Speaking of McKay and Sheppard ... how about a story in which the sex is really, really bad? It's hardly believable that it's always the best sex they have ever had. Also, how come they're almost always pros? Why not show the little mishaps? It can't be perfect all the time.

That would be truly hilarious -Someone seriously needs to write that. *looks imploringly at you* What? You did say you were feeling withdrawl now that the Monster is almost done. :)

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Whoops! Sorry. *hides* :)

I do make exceptions to the rule, you know? That's what my lawyer-heart requires. No rule without an exception. And in yours, it was more of a passing mention, not the focus of the story. And that's what I was referring to. In future-fics, and mentioned in passing, I can stomach it. If it's the focus of the story ... erm. It's sadly one of the reasons I stopped reading a very popular author in this fandom: When a story already starts with a wedding ring, my inner radar says: Danger, Will Robinson, and makes a strategic retreat. Even more sadly, all the following stories in the series were the same, and so I passed them by completely. I'm perfectly okay with other people loving it, it's just absolutely not my cup of tea.

Because I love the slow build too.

There! That, exactly. It seems as though people just don't take the time to be as elaborate for het pairings as they are for slash pairings. Which is such a shame - there are stories to tell on the other side, too. You don't suddenly decide you're in love in real life, do you? It takes time. Why don't people take that time?

Sadly, everytime I see 'Liz' I have to run away

*snerk* We should start running together. I'm sure it's more fun that way.

*looks imploringly at you* What? You did say you were feeling withdrawl now that the Monster is almost done. :)

Woman, I wrote my first slash-scene ever for the monster, and only because Auburn held my hand, and now you're asking me to start in an explicit one on my own? Let me start in a smaller scale, hm? An idea is there. :o)

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

- Speaking of McKay and Sheppard ... how about a story in which the sex is really, really bad? It's hardly believable that it's always the best sex they have ever had. Also, how come they're almost always pros? Why not show the little mishaps? It can't be perfect all the time. Especially not on the first time.

Torch has a hilarious and hot story dealing about this topic. A Joint Problem (http://www.strangeplaces.net/torch/joint.html)

As for the rest of your list, can I just say A-fucking-men

[eretria.livejournal.com]

God, yeah. I completely forgot that one. Thank you for reminding me. So good to know that this kind of story actually exists.

As for the rest of your list, can I just say A-fucking-men

It's good to know I'm not alone in this. So, uhm. Tea?

[princealia.livejournal.com]

"Teyla" spelled as "Taylya" (A little research, hm? It's not that hard)

Oh, I've seen worse. I've seen "Tayla Emmagen of Aythos". Not that the series soundtrack helped that by spelling her name "Tayla".

*bangs head on table*

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Ouch.
Also, whoever was in charge of (apparently the soundtrack and) the DVD's? Should do their homework. You've pointed out Teyla, and I think there are bout three different spellings of DH's name on the box-set. WTF, people?

[cjk1701.livejournal.com]

Oh, so much agreement on the Kavanagh issue(s). *sigh*

[eretria.livejournal.com]

You icon is ... wow. That's really him?

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

Ditto on, well, everything!

Especially the "Liz" thing. Gah.

One thing to add to the list: people who say things like "I suck at summeries" in their summary. It was funny the first time. Now it makes me want to spork my eye out. (I also hate it when people post 400 words and end it with "Should I keep going?" If you want to write it, write it, don't play games with me like that. I'm not 15 and going to ennable your crap, ok?)

*ahem*

Being a Weir/Sheppard fan (erm, moderate, I like to believe, especially these days)... strangely, I agree with you! It's very, very hard to find fic that draws them as adults, complicated people with messy emotions and a lot of hard realities. In my own head I could never see them "realistically" becoming romantically involved until maybe years down the road. I read the silly, snuggly fic, I admit, mostly for comfort, but there's a difference between seeking out comfort reading (or reading ANYTHING so you can procrastinate) and reading a story that *feels* like the actual characters.

in the interests of full disclosure, yes I've written a half dozen (http://www.geocities.com/mierac72/atlantis/01/index.html) or so W/S stories myself, so my opinions are obviously fairly strong about what is/isn't accurate characterization of them.

Um, the best story about Weir & Sheppard that I can think of off the top of my head, and it's not really a romantic story:

Chord Progression by Little Red (http://sachi.arrr.net/chord.html) - this is a post-Conversion story. For me it's *the* post-Conversion story about Sheppard and Weir and their relationship (friendship and working both), because he's not kneeling before her in guilt and she's not weeping with how scared she was for him or anything ridiculous like that. It felt like them to me. I love all of Red's stories. Even her crazy-schmoopy ones don't make me groan as much as the schmoopy usually does. *g*

[eretria.livejournal.com]

(I also hate it when people post 400 words and end it with "Should I keep going?" If you want to write it, write it, don't play games with me like that. I'm not 15 and going to ennable your crap, ok?)

God, yeah. That's in the same vein as people writing: Give feedback or I won't post the next chapter! Initial reaction to that? A shrug and an acid: "So what?"

I was actually hoping that you'd comment, by the way, as your stories have always seemed to stand outside the "normal" Sheppard/Weir stories, which is why I liked them. And, of course, the Sheppard/Weir/McKay. Which, yeah. Bulletproof.
So, it's always interesting to have input from a writer of the pairing in question. What do you think, why are there so many immature S/W stories, compared to other pairings?

Thank you for the rec!

[seekergeek.livejournal.com]

You forgot "Dr. Weird". I see that misspelling aaaaaall the damn time. *rolls eyes*

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Ah, well. If this was comedy, I might understand, but ... seriously? People write that? That's just sad.

[ellex42.livejournal.com]

I agree with...well, pretty much everything you wrote. One of my personal peeves is seeing 'Koyla' rather than 'Kolya'. Sound it out, people! It sounds totally different with the 'y' in front of the 'l'.

sigh

Stories in which McKay is a jerk, and nothing but a jerk, bother me. He can be a jerk, but he isn't only a jerk.

Also, schmoopy terms of endearment, particularly in McShep. It's usually Sheppard that's written as perpetrating this shameful and adolescent habit. It makes me squirm to see John calling Rodney 'babe' and 'baby'. Frankly, I can't imagine him calling anyone that.

There are a few stories I'll read that have TOE anyways...simply because, otherwise, the plots are pretty good. The biggest exception I make is forlornhope42's lovely Harlequin fic Do Not Go Gentle (http://www.livejournal.com/users/forlornhope42/856.html#cutid2), in which Rodney calls John 'dear'. The whole long story is wonderfully schmoopy and sentimental, but it doesn't pretend to be anything else, and the relationship builds oh so slowly.

What I'd like to see...most of the same things you would, including Cadman and Kavanagh.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

It makes me squirm to see John calling Rodney 'babe' and 'baby'. Frankly, I can't imagine him calling anyone that.

To me, that's always a very bad sign of the author being unable to take a step back and inserting herself into the character. It's what the author wants to say at the time, not what the character would actually say or do. And that just makes me, personally, want to run screaming.

[fairestcat]

#1 is one of my biggest pet peeves in fandom in general. And it's not marriage or long term relationships or even having a house in the suburbs and kids that bothers me -- because I've read stories with all those factors that I've loved (If you stretch the definition of suburbs to include the Canadian wilderness, cesperanza's due South story "With Six You Get Eggroll" has all three, and there's good reason it's possibly the single most recced story in the entire fandom) -- it's the idealized, schmoopy, Disney movie version of marriage that doesn't exist in real life and which I've always found rather disturbing in fiction anyway.

#2 is another one that drives me nuts. There seems to be this weird almost fetishization of the phrase "I love you", making it this huge big deal to say or hear and the act of saying it the ultimate test of a relationship. Now to be fair, this is pretty consistent with how I've seen it treated in a lot of mainstream media, particularly things like Romantic comedies and sitcoms, so at least fic writers aren't alone in this one. And again what bothers me most about this, besides the way the word "love" seems to be the magic OOC behavior switch, is the way the fic version in no way resembles real life.

Actually I agree with all your points, but especially with those two.

And I'll add my voice to the plea for more McKay/Carter, because Yeah. Actually, what I really want is more McKay/Sheppard/Carter. Now, I think I've read all of one story with the three of them, but it really hooked me.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Now, I think I've read all of one story with the three of them, but it really hooked me.

Let me guess: Agentotters "Ex Gratia"? Because, hell yeah. That one just does it so very, very right.

Glad to see I'm not the only one with the marriage fic issues.

And as for the I love you issues ... It often seems to me that the author uses those three words to not have to go into more detail about the characters. Because with those three words, everything is said and done, and nothing else is needed. Too bad that this assumption is wrong. Its what's not said that makes things interesting. And then, occasionally, words are necessary, but only very, very rarely.

[alizarin-nyc.livejournal.com]

Okay, I agree with everything, indeedy, I do. But the things I want to really say *nodnodnnod* are these...

Kisses. One well-described kiss can be so much hotter than all the sex you can come up with, if only it's done right.

YES. I love the good kissing. I think we're lucky, however, in SGA fandom (from what I've seen on LJ) to have some really great first kiss fics. I could read the first kiss scenario over and over and most of the authors here do a really good job. *luffs on you all*

- ONE Sheppard/Weir story that treats them as adults, not as silly teenagers. One story that actually makes me believe in the pairing. I have yet to be convinced.

Like, yeah. How can it be that I have never, ever read a fic that makes me believe this pairing could work? I've read, like, Cordy/Buffy that worked, for crissakes. Everything works if it's done right (there are several Rodney/Teyla that hooked me!) ... and I haven't read the Shep/Weir that does it for me and it seems like a slam dunk even if I don't ship them.